Joe Calzaghe retired 46-0 (32) in 2008. Get over it. Fans & haters; quit trolling!

Lets clear something up ..

Both Eubank and Hopkins do not have better wins than Toney career wise this much is fact !


Are they more accomplished sure but I'd pick a prime Toney to beat any version of Hopkins or Chris ..

Jones resume dumps all over Joe's He has wins over Toney ,Hopkins who was closer to his prime and was also ranked above him,Hill,and Reggie Johnson... Please don't compare the two resumes ..

Jones was a fighter of the decade was Joe even fighter of the year there is no comparison as to their dominance .

And who did Joe ever fight ? At least we can say Jones had some legendary scalps under his belt in his prime years who did Joe actually fight ? calling out people anyone can do who did he actually fight ?

You want to talk about guys Jones didn't fight yet Joe chased ,chased and chased but never bothered to move up in weight when the division was hot (LHW ) yet he couldn't find anyone to fight ? Sorry don't buy that story .

And the version of Toney that Jones beat was ten times the fighter the Hopkins that Joe beat who incidentally had lost to RJJ and Jermain. Taylor prior ..


Personally I can't believe I'm having a resume discussion with a Calzaghe fan when there is really no comparison..

 

Did the Jones fans vote him into the Hall of Fame?:huh

 

Prime for prime, Calz loses to RJJ, all the time, everytime. Beating up a washed up RJJ doesn't cut it for me.

 

so thats no SMW pedigree then? Is that correct? He was a boiled down LHW who had lost to Pascal

 

Depends how you define great.
I would say Eubank, Hopkins, Jones.

 

I havent. You have evaded mine.
Leonard didnt have any to my knowledge, but was going up in weight rather than draining himself down. Surely even you can grasp that?

 

You havent been able to give a sensible answer and the only point of note you gave was that wards career is not yet over

 

How does it say its poor?
Woodhall had beaten a WBC champ, a former world rated SMW world champ, a world class SMW who became a LHW champ and beat prime G Johnson at SMW and beat a future SMW champ.
Today G Groves is at 3 and he has suffered to recent KO losses against an old SMW.

At 6 today you have A Dirrell whos biggest win is over faded Bika and he didnt win that fight at first ask. Thats less than Reid at that time.

Once again you have failed

 

None. But as said before, and it applies to Calzaghe when beating Hopkins also. Calzaghe was going up in weight, not dropping down.
Surprised your agenda caused you to slip up like this Loudon. You seem to be losing your composure

 

KillSomething,


Before we go any further, you have made the following statement on another thread.

'I'm always trying to detract from Roy Jones'

So I'll happily debate Roy's career with you, everyday if you wish. But clearly, you aren't going to be objective.

Joe did not have better ring IQ.

There's no comparison.

?

Of course missing can hurt a fighter.

What?? Ha!

This has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read on here. This actually made me laugh out loud.

Shot variation has nothing to do with anything?

You're talking about a fighters full ars*nal of shots.


Joe threw lots of fast punches, but he concentrated more on volume than what he did on accuracy. His work at times looked very scr*ppy. He didn't have the variation that Roy had. Nowhere near.


Roy had a great jab, which he very seldom used.

He had a great left hook. Both to the head and body, and he could double and triple them.

He had a great left uppercut.

That's four great shots, just with his left hand.

He also had a great straight/overhand right.

He also threw right hands to the body.

He also had a great right uppercut.

That's eight different shots.

But he could also turn southpaw, and throw almost everything in reverse.

Not only that, he could put everything together in blistering combinations, with power and accuracy.

All in all, he had a huge variety of shots.


How often did Joe throw uppercuts?

How many body shots did he throw?

How many body to head combinations?

How many double hooks etc?

He was a volume guy.


Roy had around 12 different shots in his ars*nal, even before he thought of putting them together as rapid fire combinations, and using then as lead shots.

Did you see the 1-2 he hit Reggie Johnson with?

Did you see the knockout of Paz? A 6 punch combination while walking forward, that included uppercuts from either hand.

Did you see the body shot knockout of Hill?

Did you see the lead uppercut he knocked out Griffin with, weighing 180 pounds plus?


Many of Joe's shots were cuffs, especially later on in his career.


How is it subjective, saying that Roy had a better defence? We're not talking about fundamentals etc. Roy was extremely hard to hit clean in his 20's. Whereas Joe was repeatedly tagged. Roy clearly had a better defence. Joe was much easier to hit. There's plenty of examples to look at.


How could Roy not have had a better offense? Again, look at Roy's variation, his accuracy, timing, and power. There's no contest.


It doesn't matter if Joe ate shots, and then managed to come back stronger. Seriously, how many of Roy's power shots could he have taken?


You're assuming that Joe could have won via constant pressure. How do you know he'd have pressured him? Would he have had the confidence to? I don't believe so. He pressured guys, because everyone he fought didn't possess the skills and speed that he had. But against Roy, he'd have been facing a guy with more speed, more overall ability, and more power. Now everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But IMHO, the threat of Roy's offense would have nullified Joe's great pressure and work rate. Because I truly believe that Joe would have fought in a very cautious manner, and not in the way that we used to see him.


His volume would also have been nullified IMHO. Joe was happy to trade with lesser guys, dropping his hands, and again, concentrating more on volume than accuracy. But he could never have taken that risk against Roy.


Let's have a look at Joe's stamina. He had unbelievable stamina. But it wouldn't have been beneficial against Roy, because again IMHO, it'd have been a cagey affair.


Let's look at Joe's chin. He had a great chin. But his chin was only an attribute, when facing lesser skilled, slower guys. If you're in a shoot out, then possessing a great chin, is going to be hugely beneficial. But he would never have dreamt of having a shoot out with Roy.


IMHO, the great attributes that he held over Roy (stamina, work rate, chin, pressure) just wouldn't have been a factor in the fight. Because there's no way he'd have fought Roy, in the same manner that he fought everyone else.

We're talking about two cars.

One was very fast.

But the other one was a Lamborghini Murcielago.

Roy was the superior fighter.

Roy fell fast and hard.

But we're looking at him at 25/26.

Again IMHO, his volume would have been nullified.

I've seen almost all of their fights.

You're entitled to your opinion.

But IMHO, Joe wouldn't have stood a chance.

He would have been outgunned offensively, and the attributes that he held over Roy, would only have came into play, if he'd have fought Roy aggressively from the start. (Like Tarver)

But again, I can't envisage that.

I don't think he'd have had the confidence to have fought in that manner.

Again, you're entitled to your opinion.

But I'd take the guy who was more skilled, who was faster, who was harder to hit, who possessed much more variation, and who possessed one shot knockout power.


:good

 

I did think of Andrade. Andrade also beat Stieglitz and years later looked like he was going to get a late stoppage over Bute.
I dont disagree with what you have wrote here

 

This is the most biased, undeducated pathetic post I have read in a long time..

Well done.:good

 

We are debating whether Joe is the best SMW of all times, remember?

So why are you referring to fights whichtook place at LHW.It is jst another one of these misleading answers of you.

As for Eubank, well he may be a great fighter but only in the UK.

So why can not you acknowledge the simple fact that Joe never faced anybody great at SMW?

 

the Ring is an opinion only

look at the level Toney was fighting at, when SMW champ

1993 he wins the title from iran barkley a fighter who years earlier was blown away by nigel benn in 1 round and pummelled to a loss by a shot roberto duran barkley went onto lose 11 out of 25 fights following this fight and never beat anyone who was remotely good in doing so,the guy was so desperate he was even plying his trade as a HW in the late 90's against the likes of berbick and they say this era is a joke

govonor chambers a guy with a career record of 9 wins 7 losses, all 3 fights prior to toney were ko losses!

ricky thomas: won 11 lost 14,the 4 fights he had prior to toney all losses!

glenn thomas:won 29 lost 8, lost to roy jones prior to toney and finished his career with a first round ko loss to jeff lacy.

danny garcia: won 30 lost 22, was coming off losses to chris pyatt (a steve collins victim) lamar parks etc

larry prather: won 19 lost 24,lost his last 5 fights prior to the toney fight even losing to nicky piper

tony thornton: won 37 lost 7,lost to chris eubank a year earlier.

anthony hembrick: won 31 lost 8,lost to maske prior to toney and orlin norris a year earlier.

tim littles: won 27 lost 3,maybe one of his better wins,had fought mainly bums with the exception of a close UD over frankie liles,went onto lose to frankie liles in a 2nd contest following the toney fight.

vinsom durham: won 21 lost 37 enough said.

charles williams: won 37 lost 7 drew 3,lost to maske prior to toney.

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and finally the Jones fight and, That was Jones big SMW victory where Toney was alledgedly weight weakend, other than that Jones didnt do much at SMW.

Eubank had some good genuine SMW victories
Eubank beat Watson, Rocchigiani, Wharton, Holmes
Eubank was fighting at a much higher level at SMW.