Greatest overall: Froch or Calzaghe

I love both but have to go with calzaghe.

 

If they fought, I learned after the first Mario Veit fight to never bet against Joe, so Joe takes it. However, Froch has the better resume by a wide margin and called out Joe for a few years with 0 response as far as I know.

I pick Froch to be the overall greater of the two.

 

froch is now the greater. joe had his chance, he didn't take it, preferring to stay undefeated.

 

Yes it is. If Joe should go up in weight and fight the likes of RJJ and DM then Froch should at least have to also go up in weight and fight Kovalev and Stevenson (who probably aren't even as good as DM and RJJ).

 

H2H? Joe.

Resume? Carl.

Joe could only dream of having as much bottle, self-belief and confidence as Carl. And Joe would tell you the same.

 

Their resume's are quite comparable imo.

Notable wins:

Froch . . . . . . . Calzaghe

Bute . . . . . . . . Lacy
Kessler . . . . . . Kessler
Taylor . . . . . . . Jones Jr
Abraham . . . . . Bika
Reid . . . . . . . . .Reid
Johnson . . . . . .Eubank
Pascal . . . . . . . Woodhall
Dirrell . . . . . . . .Hopkins
Grovesx2

Losses:

Froch . . . . . . . . . Calzaghe

Ward
Kessler

 

Different circumstances altogether.

 

Yes their entire careers did indeed have different circumstances so it works both ways. I still don't think it's fair to say say Carl is greater than Joe because Joe didn't go up in weight and fight another top P4P fighter and an ATG in his prime when Carl hasn't done that either.

 

Froch faced the most dangerous guys at 168 as did Joe.

 

Carl is not greater than Joe in my opinion.

But here's where the circumstances were different.

Carl has never needed to move up to LHW. He's not a huge guy, and he's had a great career, with lots of entertaining fights at SMW. He was of course, part of the great Super Six tournament than run for a few years. Then afterwards, he had a great win over Bute. Then he had a great rematch with Kessler, and he's had two big domestic fights with Groves. Before he retires, he can also fight Degale if he wishes to do so.

Joe's circumstances were completely different. When he was prime, he was unfortunate that guys like Benn, Eubank, Watson and Collins etc, were no longer fighting. Although the division still had some good fighters in it, it was generally regarded as a weak division. It had lost it's luster. In 2003, Joe was unable to get a unification fight with Sven Ottke. However, he had the chance to go up to LHW, to face better fighters. Now the difference between Carl and Joe, is that when Joe fought to his full capabilities, he was an elite fighter. Not only was he an elite fighter, but he was also a big guy. He's 6ft, and his natural walking around weight was between 192-196 pounds. He had to work hard to make SMW. Moving up to LHW, or not having to lose as much weight, would have been no problem to him in the early 00's.

That's the difference.

Carl had great SMW fights, and his circumstances meant that he never needed LHW.

Joe ran into a wall in 2003, and he should have moved up and targeted the best guys at LHW, instead of staying at SMW and fighting Mitchell, Mkrtchyan, Salem and Veit etc. Also, in 2003, Joe didn't know that he'd end up in big fights against Lacy and Kessler in three and four years time.

So he was bigger than Carl.

He was a better fighter than Carl.

But he was happy to fight lesser competition than Carl, without pushing himself.

That's why he gets criticised, and Carl doesn't.

Again, Carl never needed to go up.

Whereas Joe did.

Obviously, Joe did go up in 2008.

But he could have gone up at any point in his career, had he really wanted to.

If Joe hadn't have been as great as he was, people wouldn't be as hard on him.

So it's actually a compliment as well as a criticism, questioning why he didn't move up earlier.

IMHO, if Carl had've been in Joe's shoes, he'd never have fought the Mkrtchyan's of the world, when they were potentially bigger fights up at LHW.

He'd have moved up.

Again, Joe was the better fighter, and he'd have beaten Carl had they fought.

But his best years were wasted.

He was an elite guy fighting weak WBO mandatories.

He was just too good for that.

 

I don't really think that matters. I already posted a little comparison of their resume's and they are similar so what you say above only shows that Calzaghe was more highly rated than Froch therefore people expect Froch to lose more often.

They also had different circumstances and opportunities etc as already mentioned, so it's difficult to compare their career paths.