Lyle vs Frazier

One of those could've....should've fights.


In a prime for prime scenario,or even up to 1975 in real time,Joe survives one or two scary moments early on to ground Ron down to stoppage defeat by the time the fight was halfway over.

I would give Lyle a shot,though,post Manilla.

 

Frazier was an excellent HW who the had the greatest Left hook of all time .

But he was very much beatable.....

Just like any other fighter in the history of boxing .

Frazier knocking out Lyle is not absolutely impossible .

It's just highly unlikely .

If anyone gets stopped its going to be Frazier .

There some who say in here Joe can take a better punch than Lyle ?

Definitely not . Lyle was indeed more durable than Frazier .

In response to a fellow poster of mind , Frazier is not coming to out point Lyle like Quarry did .

He's coming to slug it out and break his opponent down which is typical Frazier , that's pretty much what he always do .

That style of his will be his downfall in this fight .

 

Give Ron a big methodical Come forward Target and he's in with a shout against any of them, Joe, coming forward, as with Shavers would be in a three round Minefield, Each round the mines being less numerous, Ron can create a bit of space for himself with his ability to move off to the side, behind the Jab, But Joe, the Joe of March 8th 1971 was not as easy to hit consistently as may of appeared, even the (Still) very quick Ali was missing quite a bit against Pressure Hooker Joe,

I cant help but feel that once Joe gets into his Bobbing Weaving Jinking Groove, Throwing those Heavy and Cultured Left hooks on the upswing, Then Big Ron is not going to be Fast Handed enough to Keep Frazier off, it will come down to big single shots and hopeing for the best , of course he could get lucky, but i think that Lady Luck starts grimacing at him with each preceeding round, Joe keeps him working at a pace he finds uncomfortable, forcing him to put 9 rounds of energerial eggs into a 6 rounds Basket, Thereafter its a tree chopping Job, he did something similar in his younger day with Buster Mathis, and the result might be similar, Allowing for the improvement of Ron over Buster, His own Improvement counters this, Could be a fatigued Ron gets caught by the type of Left Hook Joe Caught Bugner with, But this Prime Joe Finishes the Job, I think he would be just too persistant for Ron, Dwight Qawi was known as the Camden Buzzsaw.. Well Ron .. Meet Papa Sawmill... Welcome to the Woodchoppers Ball... Joe Circa 10th for Me .
( Once he come through the Minefield ! )

 

Frazier stops Lyle in the mid rounds. Lyle would be competitive for about three rounds and then Joe would steam roll Ron.

Frazier could be hit, but he wasn't as easy to hit as most seem to think. Joe was also a "sharp shooter" in that he was a very accurate puncher. Lyle would not be able to box Joe, as Frazier would be on Ron like stink on ****.

Remember that Shavers left hook that almost decapitated Lyle, multiply that by a hundred and add a couple of cracked ribs.

 

This could go either way. I always have a hard time figuring out the outcome. I've posted two scenarios and separate threads. I will share them here.
My first scenario: Prime vs Prime, Frazier digs in and takes this by late TKO. However, if this fight took place in 76, and over only ten rounds, Ron Lyle would win it.

By that time, Frazier was finished as a fighter. On this site, we love and admire Joe Frazier. But, if you look at his record, after his first fight with ALI, you will see that his performances declined drastically. He could only motivate himself for ALI.

By 76, Lyle's career was also staggering. He narrowly lost to ALI and he had the loss to Jimmy Young and, of course, the war with Foreman. However, he also had a string of four wins in 77 and the TKO over Shavers.

There isn't much to be said about the careers of either man, during this time. I think the difference is that Frazier had declined more than Lyle and Lyle could be motivated by more than just facing ALI. The year 1976 was a pivotal year for both men as they were on the decline.

The fact that Frazier retired soon after and Lyle put together a few wins, tells me that Lyle would have been fresher and more motivated. Frazier might win a disputed decision on aggression but I think it would have been an ugly fight either way. Lyle has a little more in the tank at this time.

Lyle W10.

My Second Scenario.: Remember Quarry-Lyle? That's your answer but worse.

Frazier's Prime was 1971 but Joe was still a warrior in 75-76 and he went to war in Manila and didn't give up against Foreman. Now Lyle gave Foreman problems but they had the same style but against Frazier it wouldn't work. To say "Lyle gave Foreman a tough fight and Joe didn't so Lyle wins" isn't a legit argent at all. Because Frazier gave Ali more problems than Lyle did.

Lyle was 6"3 and had a 77 inch reach compared to Joe's 73 inch and 5"11 height but Joe still wins

Quarry wore Lyle down and used his hand speed to take an easy UD. Joe had faster hands, more resistance and a better Left-Hook.

Lyle could maybe win an impressive first round but he'd tire. Frazier would Swarm him, batter his ribs, body, arms, head, etc. He'd have faster hand speed and he'd frustrate Lyle and dodge Lyle by Bobbing and Weaving. He'd keep coming forward and firing his left, also using his shots to attack Lyle's body and wear him down via Body Shots. Lyle tires in the 11th, and Frazier livens open and uses a combo and finishes with his Left to KO a worn out Lyle.

Joe Frazier by KO in 11.

 

This is an interesting fight. I think it all depends on whether Lyle could overpower Frazier like Foreman did. The problem for Lyle was that he was more patient naturally than Foreman and more of a boxer than an aggressive slugger. If he let Frazier get into the fight hed have a long night and probably lose. Lyle didnt have the best stamina.

I had never heard that they actually sparred. Id like to see sources on that. I know in 1971 Lyle went to Miami while he was still an amateur and sparred with Ali prior to the FOTC. I have that on film. Lyle was then scheduled to go up and spar with Frazier in Philadelphia. Ali is seen praising Lyle and saying in a few years hed be too smart for Frazier but he warned Lyle against sparring with Frazier. He said to be careful because Frazier wouldnt go easy on him and might try to hurt him. Lyle then went to Philly and instead of sparring with Frazier he sparred with Ken Norton (and did pretty good) while Frazier shouted advice from ringside.

 

IN a recent doc, maybe facing Ali, Lyle himself said it .. saying that Frazier could fight, he was like a little pit bull and he knows first hand ..

 

I emphatically disagree with the underlined.

 

That's fine . We'll agree to disagree .

 

Seems to me that Frazier went 41 rounds with Ali and Lyle got taken out in 11 .. no way would I say Lyle was more durable than Joe ..

 

I agree.

 

We both know that was a questionable stoppage and controversial as well .

Frazier has been dropped on the canvas by lesser opposition .

 

What year? Or are you talking in their primes.

I think Lyle beats Frazier from 1973-1980

In their primes, its 50/50 for me. Lyle has the right style. Frazier had trouble with bigger men.

Lyle did much better vs some common opponents in Bonavena, Foreman, and Mathis. Lyle seemed to have more trouble with slick boxer types in Young, Quarry, and Ellis.

But Frazier wasn't a slick boxer type.

 

I agree he grant, but here's a thing; Lye often gets quoted as much more durable than Norton who is regarded by some as "chinny", yet Norton went 39 rounds with Ali who hardly made a dent in Kenny...and Ali stopped Lyle...go figure...
UNLESS, the Lyle stoppage is not straight...

 

Solid Post .