Jeffries got what he deserved ...

Ahh, the old tried and true Uncle Tom argument. Nothing like a trotting out that old tried and true chestnut. Funny, Gans grew up in similar circumstances to Johnson. Was taken advantage of by whites to a much greater degree than Johnson ever was professionally and yet I dont think I would him a house ******. The guy owned his own business and didnt need to resort to turning it into a ***** house. He was well liked by both whites and blacks and managed to be recognized as champion by whites including before he had a clear claim. You might as well call Joe Frazier an Uncle Tom. That argument will get you about as much mileage, which is to say NONE.

 

So because had been beaten down so much and had it ingrained in them to be good boys or else.. means they were somehow perfectly socialized and this is to be applauded is simply laughable. So when a AA punches a white man or raping his wife and is hung he's not socialized.. when a black man just takes the same and smiles.. he's socialized. The problem isn't who acts better in bad circumstances that shouldn't exist. When you're placed in a scenario where you're segregated.. made to feel inferior... laughed at.. spit at... it is no longer about who can act the best when faced with such things.. that point because moot when the real problem is the actions of the dominating class and the situation they were put it. To even someone acting out less makes them a better person is being disingenuous to the real issue

 

That is not so much a huge and glaring elephant, as a pygmy hippopotamus half obscured by the sofa.

The key question is whether they were operating at world level, when Johnson beat them.

If they were operating at world level, then the results are pertinent, even if it was before their primes.

If they were not yet world level players, then the results have minimal relevance.

 

Uncle Tom isn't mutually inclusive to what I said or the issue at hand. My post above explains the issue at hand. When one is FORCED to act in a docile manner and to turn the other cheek because of years and years of abuse... That doesn't mean they are a better person than somebody who does act out. To even think that is the case is bordering on re****ed. When you're treated in such ways as they were NEITHER actions are bad. When such a negative situation is thrust upon you and ingrained in you... it because irrelevant for the most part how you act. To even judge some of Johnson's actions as anything other than him rebelling and acting out is pretty absurd. Sure, he might not have been the best person had he grown up in society today. We'll just never know. What we do know is that he wasn't, and was born in a time where he was treated sub human by many and it was accepted as okay. How that would shape any of us and how we would act is also up for debate.

 

Not even close to true. Langford was known commodity and had already beaten very good fighters. Same with Sam. The point is, even if we say they all were totally green (which they weren't) he still faced them at one point or another. Jeffries never faced them at any time. Ohhh it's an elephant alright, a normal sized one at the least.

 

McVea was being talked about as a possible opponent for Jeffries when Johnson met him, so I will let your point stand on that one.

Langford and Jeanette were not really anywhere in terms of the heavyweight division at the time.

An ****ogy would be if Oliver McCall was the lineal champion, and Oleg Maskaev became the No1 challenger, and McCall then used his win over a green Maskaev to argue that he did not need to fight him again.

 

I never said anything of the sort. I said that Johnson fought more black boxers because he fought more, period. I said nothing of ducking or avoiding or any other such thing you want to say

 

Can I say I think you're ***y?

 

They weren't accepted and respected enough to get equal purses.Nelson got more than Gans.

Johnson was no civil rights icon he was out for Jack Johnson, but as a result of him beating Jeffries quite a few blacks walked a bit taller.
Those that didn't get hanged that is.
Were Jeannette, Armstrong, and Langford civil rights icons, openly boosting and rooting for Jeffries the white supremacist to triumph over the first black challenger for the heavyweight title in the gloved era?
Johnson consorted with white prostitutes and married them . Jeannette had a white wife.
.Langford patronised prostitutes as did Sullivan , Corbett,Ketchel and many other fighters.

 

Johnson was not more experienced he had less fights than Langford when they met.
There are a multitude of papers lamenting Jackson's physical decline long before he fought Jeffries.
They mention him being falling downdrunk in London and having hand tremors.Plus he is believed to to already be suffering from the TB that killed him as a drect result of his damaged ribs against Slavin .
Jackson was 37 years old and had not fought for 3 years when he got in the ring with Jeffries he was a broken, destitute alcoholic ,he would be dead 3 years after the Jeffries fight.


I'm content that the premier expert on Langford picks Johnson to beat him prime for prime .I would take the opinion of any of my dogs over yours

 

Apparently you can't.

 

Anyway the bottom line is that nobody should be surprised that our sporting heroes had feet of clay.