Explain the Ducking History of Great Fighters Part I: Roy Jones

Whats that got to do with the question :huh

 

GGG versus john Ruiz. Think GGG walks down and sparks 230 pound Ruiz cold? Or does GGG outpoint him using lateral movement and a jab? Picture the two standing next to one another. This isn't 160 pound Daniel Geale running around the ring.

 

Dariousk ducked roy, because he didn't want to fight in the states. It was a bad buisness decision because he later dropped the belt to Gonzalez. Could have been paid alot of money to get beat by roy!

 

This is rather funny. As evidence of how ordinary of an accomplishment this was you bring up a guy that was born in 1863.

KillSomething, you're too much!

 

So what if you are right? Is it still not a great feat?


Day before weigh ins have been going for how long now? How come we don't have any former 154 lb fighters beating top 5 heavies???

Lets also look at who Fitzsimmons beat, Jim Corbett was around 185 pounds, the size difference was not near that of Jones-Ruiz or even close to Lennox Lewis- Roy Jones.

 

Because you tried to make out Ruiz as being such a bad champion for losing to Toney and Jones jr who were both former super middles yet Toney Had success at HW..Ruiz lost to two Atg great fighters yet he was able to beat Holyfield ..So what does that say about Holyfield? Guess he's a scrub as well for losing to Toney too right ?

 

Did Spinks fight at 154? or was he a former MW champ? Just a simple yes or no...

Also, you have agreed in the past that Spinks had great timing, and that he would not have been able to move up and beat THE champion in most other eras... Why is it you back track? I don't think there is much intellectual honesty on your part Rico.

Again, how many were former 154 lb fighters, and how many would be going up against a giant that happens to be probably the best h2h fighter ever at his best?

I have seen you post enough to know you do know the history of boxing well, and have impressed me at times, but you simply hate Roy too much to give him any kind of credit, and part of me believes you just do it to get a rise.

 

KillSomething,

No, I don't consider any other HW having a great win over Ruiz.

But again, Roy was a 34 year old LHW, who'd had 50 fights, and who was outweighed by 30 pounds.

So Roy obviously deserves more credit.

It was a great win whichever way you slice it.

Everyone's circumstances are different, and Ruiz wasn't a chump.

Again, if Ruiz had a paper title, then what the hell did Sanders have?

You're pi$$ed that Roy fought Ruiz, but have questioned why he didn't fight Sanders?

atsch

Do you seriously think that Roch would have brought a bigger challenge to Roy?

There's no way you'd have rated that win.

Why would you have?

Roch was a good-very good fighter.

But nothing more.


You don't think Roy would have handled a guy like Glen in his 20's?

How many more times?

At times, HBO crucified him. When it came to Roy, they were completely unbiased. You can't even argue against that. When Roy fought Frazier they were pi$$ed. So you know that when they backed him, they were telling the truth. Now why would you doubt the word of Kerry Davis? Davis was the VP for HBO. When he gave reports to the media, that he was trying to bring Dariusz to the U.S. there was absolutely no reason not to believe him. Again, you can't have it both ways. When HBO were angry, they publicly criticised Roy. So again, they weren't at all biased.

Has it not registered yet why I've mentioned Evander? You keep saying that Roy chose the path of least resistance. You've mentioned it numerous times. So if that was really true, why on earth would he have took his advisor to Atlanta, to meet with Jim Thomas and Evander? That link, even though you've never mentioned Evander, blows your biased opinion straight out of the water.

With regards to Liles, what do you mean I may have a point? atsch
I've shown you a video, and a link. In the video Roy states that he offered Liles seven figures. Jim Lampley stated that Frankie had never made that amount of money before. Again, if HBO hadn't have had proof of such offers, they would never have aired the interview. Is that not obvious to you? In the link, Jack O'Halloran spoke of their time together. He gave him a home, he got the best out of him, and he was absolutely convinced that Frankie would have knocked Roy out. He said that Frankie had a great fight lined up against Roy, but he blew it by asking for more. He then labelled him foolish, and ended up leaving him. Again, what more do you want? We don't need to know the specifics. Because we know two things:

1. It was the biggest offer that Frankie had ever had.

2. If it hadn't have been a great offer, O'Halloran wouldn't have said what he did in the interview.

So stop digging your heels in, and admit that Roy didn't duck him.

Look, I spent a lot of time on the other thread. You dismissed everything that I posted, and you didn't answer about 5 of my posts. Yet you're asking me to upload everything again?

My posts aren't scattered at all.

If you look at my first few posts to Rumsfield, everything is in order, from when he turned pro.

1. Again, I've posted plenty of links that have gone hand in hand with my logical opinions.

2. You have to look from Roy's perspective, and not just from the perspective of the fighters that wanted to face him.

Examples: Roy didn't want to fight Collins. Collins did not want to fight Calzaghe. Calzaghe did not want to fight Froch. Froch does not want to fight Degale. Now did those guys have valid reasons why they didn't want to fight, or were they scared duckers?

3. If you think that Roy ducked certain guys because he feared losing, then look at who he fought instead throughout his career.

4. Roy was obligated to fight mandatories from three organisations after he'd unified.

5. Roy beat fighters after Toney, who were better than Glen Johnson.

Like I've mentioned on the other thread, list all of the guys that Roy missed, and then ask yourself three questions.

1. Were the guys who he missed, BETTER than the best guys who he fought?

2. Would any of them have brought bigger challenges than Roy's biggest fights?

3. Look at the guys who Roy would have fought under different circumstances. Dariusz, (in the U.S.) Evander, Liles and a Hopkins rematch. You've seen the links. Were those guys not better than Collins, Nunn and Roch etc?


With regards to question 2, I'll give you a few examples.

Fighting Joe Calzaghe just weeks from his 40th birthday, was a bigger challenge than fighting a faded Nunn, at 28.

Fighting John Ruiz at 34, and being outweighed by over 30 pounds, was a bigger challenge than fighting Collins at 27.

Burning muscle at almost 35, to fight Tarver at LHW, was a bigger challenge than fighting a guy like Roch at 29.

 

Eubank was a very good-great fighter.

But a fight was never viable.

With regards to Eubank's ranking, you'd have to go and look at the different ratings.

The Ring magazine didn't have ratings for the WBO.

But I think that Eubank would have been considered a top fighter in his division.

But when both guys were at MW, Roy briefly held the IBF, while Eubank was in Britain with the WBO.

During Roy's reign at SMW, Eubank lost twice to Collins, then fought at LHW.

During Roy's reign at LHW, Eubank lost to Calzaghe at SMW, and fought at CW.

 

How many people have done it in Roy's era?

List me all the names.

 

1. Nobody is disputing the great accomplishments of the great fighters of yesteryear.

2. Ruiz had a horrible, ugly style. He was truly awful to watch. But he was effective. To say that he wasn't even good, is a gross exaggeration. Evander still had a bit left in the tank when they fought three times. If Ruiz hadn't have been good, he'd have clearly lost all of those fights. Many people think that Evander was robbed against Valuev years later. Ruiz had a few decent wins on his resume. He beat Evander, Johnson, Rahman, Quendo and Golota. A HW that wasn't good, would not have been able to have beaten those guys.

3. How could Ruiz have been a cherry pick, when Evander had been his initial target?