Larry Holmes: Klitschko has no jab, no heart and would be beaten by Wilder or Stivern

Dude also couldn't handle punchers. He could trouble boxers (Ali, Holmes, Young), he ****ped the bed against punchers (Shavers, Foreman, ****ey).

I think he gets KO'd by the aforementioned fighters (Bowe, Lewis, both Klitschkos).

 

He couldn't handle the pressure. Shaver and Foreman steamrolled him in ways Wlad never would.

Look at the pace and distance Wlad likes to keep. Norton would have his way outside with his jittery movement , superior jab and blinding counter left hook.

 

Power goes to Wlad. What's your point?

 

He doesn't need to most the time anyways.

 

I disagree, especially with Shavers. Shavers had bad stamina but was dangerous early in fights. It's not like he knocked out Norton through a war of attrition, he knocked him out with basically one punch in the first round.

Norton couldn't beat punchers, it's pretty obvious. I wouldn't take him over any of the champions from the 80's-00's like Wlad, Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, Klit Bro's, and Tyson. I think he could probably beat guys like Byrd, Donald, Stewart, Ruiz, etc.

 

No, he's not. Norton was one of the more prominent boxers of the 70s, but he's not an all-time great.

 

Beating an old Ali doesn't make you an ATG. What era did Norton dominate? What part of boxing history do boxing historians refer to as the "Norton era". Explain.

 

Well I will stretch it back to you:

Frazier went 1 in 3 vs. Ali. And 1 in 5 when I add in Foreman. Could Wlad have gone 1 in 5 vs Ali + Foreman? Easily. Probably more like 3 in 5.

Could Wlad have beaten the bum version of Louis that Marciano faced? Yes, with his left hand tied on his back. Wlad would have knocked out old Louis with the first right that landed.

What would have Wlad done with the ancient version of Ali that Holmes 'beat'. By that time Ali was 15 (!) years past his prime, was slurring his speech, couldn't jump the rope properly. Wlad would have murdered that Ali worse than Holmes did.

Patterson beat Archie Moore? Oh wow, Wlad would destroy Patterson and Moore back to back. Put them both in the ring at the same time, Wlad would knock them out at the same time.

See putting in some over the hill bum version of a 'great' fighter doesn't make you a great. By your definition Danny Green is an ATG because he beat Roy Jones JR. :rofl:rofl:rofl

 

Alot of jokers in this thread.

Bottom line is Wladimir Klitchko dominated an era, and so makes him a top 10 heavyweight of alltime.

 

I think you seem to overrated Wlad here. If he could get dropped three times by a limited plodder like Samuel Peter, he could have easily lost to any of the guys you mentioned.

I actually rate Wlad pretty high but he doesn't win every H2H matchup, especially when he has shown vulnerability against men less skilled than Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Marciano, etc.

Would he have beaten less prime versions of those men? Absolutely, but so would a lot of other fighters (like Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, etc).

 

Lessen versions, lesser men, lesser talented. all that matters is the dominance. if u dominate a division as long as he has your top 10. THERE IS NO LOGICAL ARGUEMENT.

 

Yes, that's how the logic of the classic nutheads works. Marciano beats an ancient Joe Louis who's 20 years past his prime and that makes Marciano a great :happy

You beat a legend you become a legend, right?

Where does Oliver McCall rate on the ATG list? He beat Lewis.
What about Jimmy Young? He beat Foreman.
What about Buster Douglas? He beat Tyson.

:rofl:rofl:rofl