While I believe that a prime Louis would have out-skilled and eventually stopped Marciano towards the latter point of the middle rounds, and that in fact he (Louis) would do FAR BETTER in the modern era than generally given credit for today, there is a point about Marciano that I cannot shake. I have always believed that Marciano was the best conditioned heavyweight of all time. He was able to pour it on relentlessly over the championship rounds better than I have ever seen from any other great. This can be rightly attributed to his dedication and attention to conditioning and roadwork. But at 184 to 188 I have to wonder if in fact he might have been somewhat too light or even dare I suggest it, somewhat over trained? Why do I wonder if he could have been just as conditioned but possibly more powerful and perhaps somewhat stronger at upwards of 195-200lbs? There's getting the pencil sharp and then there's the pursuit of making it even sharper, but at a certain point while retaining that great sharpness, all you are really doing is shortening the pencil, no?
I think we may know a lot more about muscle gain these days and Marciano may have overdone it with the cardio and running but it worked well for him in his era. In this era of 12 rounds maximum I think cardio is still important but a little more muscle would not hurt. The extra 3 rounds makes a big difference and you are right Marciano fought for all 15 if need be.
Marciano would push Louis all the way and as far as he ever was pushed, but he is simply not skilled enough to win against someone so deft and who will offer him not enough opportunity to catch up in the championship rounds and simply too tough and skilled to get caught cold or stopped.
I'm 50/50 on this fight. Only surprise is if it goes the distance. --------- Murray Warner Computer Tournament Louis-Fitzsimmons post fight interviews (plugging the Marciano-Baer contest) Comments begin at 1:03:15 (as found on the Ali-Marciano Superfight dvd extras: Audio Fights -- Marciano/Baer) http://www.amazon.com/Superfight-Marciano-vs-Ali/dp/B000A7DVO0 Interviewer: Joe, what about a fight between Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano? Joe Louis: Well, I could say that very easily. Marciano beat me . . . Interviewer (interupts): Oh, yeah, now that wasn't when you were at your best. I'm talking about when you were at your best, twenty-eight years old. Joe Louis: Oh, I don't know. Marciano's the type of fighter I think is good enough and strong enough and takes a good enough punch to fight anybody. I don't think that no one, (unclear word) either Dempsey or me, could say "I could beat Marciano". I think the fight could be . . . It's close, it'd have to be a close fight, because he's too strong, and he could take a good punch, and he just . . . you just can't say that I could beat him. I'd like to say that I'd fight him, alright, but who would win, I wouldn't know; but I'd like the pay for the fight -- I think it would draw money, though.
Fighters over 230 begin to sacrifice stamina. Fighters over 6'5" suffer from bad balance. ----------------------- I can see your setup and the pretext used and this comment is irrelevant to your thread topic ... but, I do not believe these two assertions have to be the case. There are large sized athletes on this planet above this weight and height that have exceptional qualities including good stamina, exceptional conditioning, balance, athleticism, speed, quickness, coordination, etc., etc. However, it is fairly accurate to say that there are no such athletes pursuing professional boxing today. Being 6'5+ or 230 lb+ is no cut off point for athleticism or physical ability/capability.
Marciano missed shots and literally fell over what are you talking about.atsch "In 1971, Nat Fleischer, perhaps boxing's most famous historian and also editor and founder of Ring magazine, named Marciano as the all-time 10th greatest Heavyweight Champion.[16] Nat Fleischer wrote that Marciano was "crude, wild swinging, awkward, and missed heavily. In his bout with Light Heavyweight Champion Archie Moore, for example, he missed almost two-thirds of the fifty odd punches he tossed when he had Archie against the ropes, a perfect target for the kill."
He didn't pick himself against Marciano because he was standing next to him at the time,[Murray Woroners Tournament,]and he had too much class to do so .Louis did not outright say he would beat Ali either speaking of the young Ali , he said, "the kid has speed and can surely box but he doesn't know a thing about fighting off the ropes, which is where he would be if he was fighting me".
Marciano was swinging from the fences when he fought Louis the idea that he was taking it easy on Louis is silly.
Joe Louis was a shell in his fight with Marciano. He had no legs, no reflexes, no snap on his punches. Truth be told he didn't even want to be fighting anymore, which is dangerous against a tireless, murderous puncher. You take Joe Louis anytime from 36 until his war postponement and I believe he stops Marciano.
No one was ever better conditioned than Marciano but over 12 rds his superiority in fitness might be less of a factor. Rocky had a 38 in chest and small biceps he was smaller than me when I left college but Im absolutely positive he was a hell of a lot stronger and hit massively harder than I ever could. Added bulk would be detrimental to him imo, it would just slow down an already less than rapid fighter.
The Bomber's better overall skills and power would ensure victory by stoppage over Marciano. Joe may have to rise from the canvas to do it,though.