Tommy Burns Raw Deal ...

Taken fro Wiki

In December 1908, Burns became the first fighter to agree to a heavyweight championship bout with an African American boxer, Jack Johnson, to whom he lost his title in a match held in Sydney. He refused to fight Johnson until Australian promoter Hugh D. McIntosh paid him $30,000 for the fight (Johnson only received $5,000).[3] He was rumoured to be suffering from the effects from jaundice or influenza, and weighed in at just 168 pounds (76 kg)—15 pounds (6.8 kg) lighter than his previous fight, and well below Johnson's 192 pounds (87 kg). The fight lasted fourteen rounds before being stopped by the police. Referee Hugh McIntosh awarded the decision and the title to Johnson. In a filmed interview, Burns named Johnson as the second best boxer up to his time, after James J. Jeffries.

>>>Burns gave Johnson credit on film. It anything history ingores he was at a low weight for the Johnson fight. Johnson said Burns was the easiest man he fought. Bruns was a short man who did not beat anyone decent outside of Hart and O'Brien. I'm not sure why Hart was MIA vs Burns. After Burns lost to Johnson, he was rather inactive.

Losses to O'Brien, Schreck and J T. Sullivan combined with numerous draws drag down his legacy. Outside of Jimmy Braddock, and Marvin Hart, Im not sure if I would pick him against any lineal champion. I do think he was game though, and had some skills and power.

Dude, this was posted directly from Wiki. You have a documented problem accepting any thing outside your agenda.:hi: I'd tell you to get a new act, but its the only one you have.

Johnson did hit on the break in this fight. FACT. There is a difference between normal clinch fighting and holding someone to set up an offense and hitting them. This is hardly Queensberry rules. Burns was at a very low weight. FACT. :deal The ribs injury is unknown, likely not true but there is some mention of it.

The book on Burns directly quoted those at Ring side felt Burns was yellowish and looked sick. :deal I have posted it here for you and others to read. Bigots never learn. In addition Kevin Smith who researched Johnson far more than you have agree that Burns had Jaundice or influenza. :deal

Just own up, Johnson best win was Burns ( My opinion and possibly yours too ) and he was 5'7" tall and but 168 pounds. While Johnson was over 6' tall and about 192 pounds. That's a 24 pound advantage and over 5" height advantage. Tough numbers to over come.

 

I agree. Burns was a blown up middle weight. I agree he could have given Sharkey, Bear or Braddock a tough fight. I'd pick Burns over Braddock, and give him an outside shot vs Ingo.

But you're right. Burns was game. If not for the police stopping the fight, he would have gone down, and tried to get back up.

 

I have a problem accepting Wiki as a reliable source.
Pollack will inform you that Johnson did not foul Burns.

That silly book you quote has so many innaccuracies and mistakes in it is a complete joke .We know Johnson did not sustain broken ribs in that fight we know Burns did not have jaundice.
Johnson did say Burns gave him a better fight than Jeffries.
Kevin Smith never stated Burns had either jaundice or influenza. He did come on here once and tear your **** out about putting words in his mouth, I remember that distinctly.


You want to discuss size and weight disadvantages
Want to take a look at Jim Jeffries record?

Do you remember typing this load of bull**** 2nd Feb 2009?

"Burns had jaundice. His weight was low, and his skin yellowish. Burns begged promoter H.D. McIntosh to postpone the match for another week, but McIntosh said all the tickets are sold and the show must go on as planned. Burns was at a very low weight of 168 pounds. His normal weight was 180-185, and he needed the extra weight badly vs Johnson. Things like this are not mentioned in TV / media docs, but the historians know the truth. The foremost historian on early black prizefighters KSmith knows Burns was ill as well. Burns was a lively man in other filmed fights vs Squires, and O’Brien. Heck I have his last fight vs Joe Beckett in 1920 and even then Burns fat moves around pretty well. It is hard to say how much the illness took out of him, and how much of it was Johnson. A bit of both I suppose"



You just keep up with the lying, who takes you seriously?

NO ****!

ps I figured out why you make so many spelling mistakes.

It's that hood, you've got the eyeholes at the back!atsch

 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/art...erm=burns yellow jaundice tommy&searchLimits=

I think that this type of report is where the jaundice theory originated from (look at the description of fighters entering the ring). There are similar reports about Burns looking like he had jaundice after earlier title fights. It is a non issue. Reporters simply commenting that he looked yellowish in colour with no basis whatsoever to suggest it was jaundice (as opposed to, for example, just having an Australian Sun Tan, or yellow lights, or even just plain imagination). There is nothing to it.

By the way, i am interested in whether or not Tommy Burns made these claims ever. There was a time where tommy was angling for a rematch, so he had to use every excuse under the sun including not being in top condition and the police stopping the fight when he could have gone on. Did he ever rely on the jaundice theory?

 

I have never seen any claims by Burns
on that score and I have looked up just about everything I could find on the fight and its aftermath.
Burns was at Reno, trying to inveigle Johnson into a rematch he was interviewed before the Jeffries fight and after, if he had any claims to jaundice in the 1908 fight, he would have definitely mentioned them then.

December 17th 9 days before the fight .
" The World" I have never been better, I am now fitter than I have ever been to defend the title." Tommy Burns.
After watching both fighters train the reporter for the NY Herald stated ,"both men are in the pink of condition".

On Dec23rd Burns gave his final public workout .before 3000 people "the champion appeared to be in splendid condition.He skipped rope punched the ball,shadow boxed and sparred with Harry Sandow and Pat O Keefe.Tom said he was down to the weight he met Bill Squires in America.He never felt better, or fitter in his life.He would rest on the 24th ,do some light work on the Friday the 25th before the fight on the 26th ."
Sydney Daily Telegraph.

For once Jim Corbett got it right, he picked Johnson to win.
Tom Sharkey agreed he said " I never saw a faster man
and Johnson will win. I said some time ago that he would be the worlds champion and I still think so.
I believe Johnson is the greatest fighter in the ring today."

"Jim Jeffries was asked if Johnson won and challenged him what he would do.Jeff said."If that c**n comes around here and challenges me to fight him,if he wins from Burns,I'll grab him by the neck and run him out".

 

Taken fro Wiki

In December 1908, Burns became the first fighter to agree to a heavyweight championship bout with an African American boxer, Jack Johnson, to whom he lost his title in a match held in Sydney. He refused to fight Johnson until Australian promoter Hugh D. McIntosh paid him $30,000 for the fight (Johnson only received $5,000).[3] He was rumoured to be suffering from the effects from jaundice or influenza, and weighed in at just 168 pounds (76 kg)—15 pounds (6.8 kg) lighter than his previous fight, and well below Johnson's 192 pounds (87 kg). The fight lasted fourteen rounds before being stopped by the police. Referee Hugh McIntosh awarded the decision and the title to Johnson. In a filmed interview, Burns named Johnson as the second best boxer up to his time, after James J. Jeffries.

>>>Burns gave Johnson credit on film. It anything history ingores he was at a low weight for the Johnson fight. Johnson said Burns was the easiest man he fought. Bruns was a short man who did not beat anyone decent outside of Hart and O'Brien. I'm not sure why Hart was MIA vs Burns. After Burns lost to Johnson, he was rather inactive.

Losses to O'Brien, Schreck and J T. Sullivan combined with numerous draws drag down his legacy. Outside of Jimmy Braddock, and Marvin Hart, Im not sure if I would pick him against any lineal champion. I do think he was game though, and had some skills and power.



Dude, this was posted directly from Wiki. You have a documented problem accepting any thing outside your agenda. I'd tell you to get a new act, but its the only one you have.

Johnson did hit on the break in this fight. FACT. There is a difference between normal clinch fighting and holding someone to set up an offense and hitting them. This is hardly Queensberry rules. Burns was at a very low weight. FACT. The ribs injury is unknown, likely not true but there is some mention of it.

The book on Burns directly quoted those at Ring side felt Burns was yellowish and looked sick. I have posted it here for you and others to read. Bigots never learn. In addition Kevin Smith who researched Johnson far more than you have agree that Burns had Jaundice or influenza.

Just own up, Johnson best win was Burns ( My opinion and possibly yours too ) and he was 5'7" tall and but 168 pounds. While Johnson was over 6' tall and about 192 pounds. That's a 24 pound advantage and over 5" height advantage. Tough numbers to over come.

You have a problem with many sources.

Many books have mistakes in them. You were not there. Eye witnesses saw Burns. Why believe your agenda over what they saw?

WRONG. He said Burns had signs of it. Your radical agenda of a raised fist prevents you from seeing what he wrote! :deal


"Burns had jaundice. His weight was low, and his skin yellowish. Burns begged promoter H.D. McIntosh to postpone the match for another week, but McIntosh said all the tickets are sold and the show must go on as planned. Burns was at a very low weight of 168 pounds. His normal weight was 180-185, and he needed the extra weight badly vs Johnson. Things like this are not mentioned in TV / media docs, but the historians know the truth. The foremost historian on early black prizefighters KSmith knows Burns was ill as well. Burns was a lively man in other filmed fights vs Squires, and O’Brien. Heck I have his last fight vs Joe Beckett in 1920 and even then Burns fat moves around pretty well. It is hard to say how much the illness took out of him, and how much of it was Johnson. A bit of both I suppose"



^^Just to add a bit more, Burns was another super middle weight that Johnson fought, and likely the best opponent he beat. To use Burns weight 4 years before he fought Johnson in a lame attempt to suggest this was his best weight in late 1908 was 168 pounds is beyond stupid.

 

No, I have a problem with liars of which you are one.
What is beyond stupid is you entirely missing the point of my mentioning Burns weight against O Brien it was in response to you saying O Brien beat him, he did in1904 over 6rds in a match made at the stipulated weight of 158lbs ,as such it is not relevant to Burns as he was 4 years later.
Do you know most stupid people can be coached to a higher standard but you get worse as you go along.atsch