Carl "The Truth" Williams what if?

I reviewed the Truth vs Holmes fight and frankly I think Williams narrowly deserved the nod. Holmes was being outlanded regularly. Of course this wasn't the Larry of 1978-1982 but nevertheless. As far as the changed trajectory of Carl's career had he been given the decision, it certainly would have led to bigger paydays and greater name recognition. But I don't see him as being on top for long. For all his strengths ( and he had many ) Williams was far too prone to getting decked with left hooks. James Tillis, Jesse Ferguson, Mike Weaver, Jerry Jones, Tommy Morrison, Mike Tyson and probably a few others all had Carl on the deck and in every instance it was a left hook. Now some of those fights came when he was either past prime or still developing. But regardless the problem was never corrected and his chin wasn't the greatest either. Truth was a fine fighter with one of the best left jabs in the business, good right hand power and the willingness to get up off the mat and continue. But at the end of the day there were some big pieces to the puzzle that were missing which would have prevented him from reaching true greatness.

 

Concur with what Magoo said.Another what if: what if Carl had waited until after 1984 to turn pro.At the time he left the amateur ranks, Carl was the top ranked heavyweight in the country, or world. Could he have won the gold medal by beating Tyson and Tillman, or would he have been upset?

 

I agree, I thought Williams won the Holmes fight and I really saw a lot of talent out of the 16 fight kid and he was smart and colorful. His problem was he could get caught and hurt so once he stepped up to a fighter with the power it was over.

I think you nailed it guy had talent but those missing pieces or weaknesses were never corrected. He was an exciting guy to watch though

 

Ali never in his career learned to block a left hook, but he could take them. Williams couldn't avoid them and he couldn't take them.

 

I think he won the fight, but his next fight would be a rematch? Would Holmes turn it around or could Williams do a repeat performance? It's likely Holmes does up his game.

I'd go with that, but what if winning meant he trained harder, could he attract a better trainer and hence fix this weakness? Wlad was close to dropping

 

He'd still have the bad chin and tendency to get caught with left hooks. I think with the right matchmaking he could make a few defenses. I think he could possibly have beaten Spinks if that fight was made after the Holmes fight. He could have possibly outworked Tubbs especially If Tubbs was out of shape. I think Witherspoon or Thomas would have been favored to beat him because both could nullify his jab.

 

Carl "The Truth" Williams vs. Michael Spinks "Jinx"

I'm sure Holmes would push for a rematch but let's assume he fights Spinks in his first defense.

After Holmes, Williams went on to fight undefeated Jesse "Boogie Man" Ferguson and won by 10th round KO. After beating Ferguson he was stopped in the 2nd round by Mike "Hercules" Weaver.

Neither one of those fights is happening. Yes, Ferguson was a decent prospect but was not worthy of a title shot at that point. Weaver was stopped by Pinklon Thomas in his fight prior to Williams, he was stopped by James "Bonecrusher" Smith in his fight following the Williams fight... no title shot for Weaver at this point in his career.

So...

HW Champ Williams 17-0 (12) vs. LHW Champ Spinks 27-0 (20). They combine for 44 wins, no losses, and 32 wins by knockout.

Williams was big and athletic. At 6'4", an 82" reach, and 220-225 solid Lbs., he had good speed, good footwork, and good power. His chin was not the best in the HW division but it wouldn't have to be vs. Spinks. Williams had good overall skills, very good actually. He did sometimes keep his hands too low after throwing a punch. Williams is 2" taller, has a 6" reach advantage, and a 20 Lb. weight advantage.

I think Williams has a good chance here. I like Williams by a hard fought 15 round decision.

Next up would have to be a rematch with Larry Holmes in 1986. Win lose or draw I think he at the very least gives Holmes a tough fight, like he actually did do in 1985. No knockout in this one.

Let's pretend he gets two wins over Holmes and a win over Spinks. The year is 1986, what's next for Carl Williams who is now 19-0 (3-0 in HW World Title Fights)?

 

Avoids Tucker (his mandatory) in order to get flattened by Tyson?

 

He becomes Michael Spinks :good

 

Great question. I thought he beat Holmes clearly. Larry would have demanded a rematch and gotten it, as he did with Spinks, and it could've gone either way. Williams wouldn't have lasted more than a year as champ though, due to the shaky chin.

 

Good ****ysis overall. I will just add that Williams was listed as having an 85" reach, which is a pretty massive 9" "ape factor". That length & youth gave him an edge over Holmes, though I think he loses against a prime Holmes.

Yes I favor him over the distance against Spinks.

 

Good ****ysis overall. I will just add that Williams was listed as having an 85" reach, which is a pretty massive 9" "ape factor". That length & youth gave him an edge over Holmes, though I think he loses against a prime Holmes.

Yes I favor him over the distance against Spinks.

 

Bottom line. Still, allow me to expand on my own take a bit.

Larry Holmes was perhaps the weakest left hooker of the ATG HW Champions, and that's the real key to why Carl Williams was able to be so competitive against him, as I see it.

I did think Holmes won it with his body attack and championship rounds surge, but if this had been a 12 rounder like Witherspoon was, there would have been a title change one defense earlier in Larry's bid to match Marciano. (Still, Rocky never could have gotten to remotely as many championship wins as Holmes.)

Holmes-Williams did reveal something else with Larry's championship distance rally I just alluded to. In order to somehow achieve even a few successful title defenses, Carl would have absolutely needed the shorter 12 round limit. For a boxer of his stylish orientation, he didn't really have the stamina for the championship distance.

Now you know who I pick between Carl Williams and Michael Spinks over the championship distance. Michael had the left hook Holmes did not, along with the experience and championship distance endurance to rally from his inevitable slow start for a clear UD win. Carl would not be able to prevent the left hook from scoring, if Futch is in Michael's corner, Eddie knew how to deal with a great left jab, and Michael would do to Carl what he did to the far more seasoned Holmes, come from weird and bizarre angles never seen before or since.

Even a huge heavyweight punch and fast start wasn't a guarantee of successfully exploiting Michael's slow start, as Gerry Cooney (who, as slow as Gerry was, does take Carl out if the Irishman replicates his template for John Denis, and maybe even if Gerry doesn't, as Williams really didn't absorb those body shots from Holmes well) discovered, and Carl is not stopping Michael before the opening bell stops ringing. Although Larry is widely considered to have been robbed in his rematch with Michael, the fact remains that nobody who ever let Michael out of the gate officially beat him.

 

Carl also showed late against Holmes in an all-important situation that he couldn't withstand body shots like Ali either without very noticeably wilting.

If you wanted to see a cruelly protracted beat-down lasting a few rounds rather than an abrupt early stoppage which left you feeling cheated of your money, but still wanted a conclusive outcome, and were completely sadistic, the Frazier of Manila and Foreman II, or most versions of Norton would have hooked his body into Swiss cheese. In fact, I wouldn't put money on Carl against the Chuvalo of Ali I, after the Canadian's body shots left Muhammad passing blood for days. Williams is one big heavyweight stylist who does crumble in Kinshasa from Foreman's huge right hands to the body, and he doesn't last against the massive rights Shavers hurled over the first several rounds into the left side of Tiger Williams either.

Big guy, terrific, well-coordinated athlete with fine skills and talent, but while you are not supposed to get hit, getting hit is also inevitable, and Carl could not take it to the body or the chin. If he'd gotten the decision over Holmes, IBF title bouts were still scheduled for the championship distance, not the 12 round limit, and Carl couldn't do attrition. Mike Weaver would have dethroned him over 15 rounds if he'd gotten a shot at Carl and did not ambush him as Hercules actually did in '86, because Weaver had the body attack to wear him down.