Resumes that begin to fall apart under a microscope

Speaking for myself, I obviously mean if you trim away casuals and know-naughts down the pub.

Among "boxing people", on the whole, I think he gets shortchanged. Largely because of the above groups and my fellow "children of the eighties" who don't know to leave well enough alone calling him "a great heavyweight" and insist on him flattening Liston or Foreman in under two minutes.

There's a sort of hipster-y resistance to say anything too positive about him precisely because of his transcendent outside-the-ring icon status and mainstream celebrity. Like he is resented for it...but you don't see old-timers resenting, say, Dempsey nearly as spitefully for being every bit as much a "rock star" in perhaps disproportion to his greatness. (and I love Dempsey)

They get almost opposite treatment, probably unfair to Mike since if we're objective about it, he's maybe greater/has the h2h measure of his idol. (or at least they are swimming in the same waters)

 

My ire was never about him ducking fighters(other than Pea)..it was a pretty weak division at the time.It was about him getting far more accolades than he deserved for coasting along against soft opposition

Christ the guy was somehow considered P4P 1 for most of the early nineties, despite being a slowed and more workmanlike version of his 80s-self. his best wins in those years where he was rated that high by many(91,92,93,94)were a 5-6 years past his best Camacho and a worn looking but still serviceable Greg Haugen.He leaned on the fame of a great fight where he was seconds away from losing(whatever you think of the stoppage) for years after.


Way too many people drank the Don King coolade and saw him as this legendary champion where in reality you had a great fighter who's best work was behind him, and was starting to fade and coast while others did better work against better fighters and got less props.

The post-Whitaker period where more and more fans started to realise the guy was on the way down and losing wasn't really going to harm his legacy much doesn't concern me...it's that post-Taylor up to Whitaker period where he was meant to be the best fighter in the world that i think falls apart under scrutiny.

 

Who is De Las Mercedes?:yep

Chavez was good at 140 until 1994 that is 5 good years. That alone is pretty impressive. But, after the second Randall Fight, which he should and most likely would have lost without the ridiculous point penalty leading to the TD when Chavez quit, he didn't do much. His championship days at 140 should have ended then.

 

I agree with most of what you said. He could have been great but clearly faded after the Spinks blowout. He was on his way if he stayed focused.

 

I wouldn't say abysmal. He beat his share of stiffs as the JW division was pretty weak at the time, but the Arguello victories (except for the black bottle controversy) and the Cervantes win are impressive. He could have done more if he didn't become a coke head. He faded after the second Arguello fight when he should have been looking forward to more big fights that could have further enchanced his legacy. A Pryor-Mancini or Pryor-Camacho fight would have been nice in 1984 but instead Pryor fought Nicky Furlano and Gary Hinton then went on a huge coke binge.

 

Yeah, these were no cab drivers...

 

Hahahaha.

Go on tell us how he ducked Chris Byrd, and denied VK a rematch at 38 years old.

Or how about he was gutless for taking Tyson's step aside money so he could get beaten up and stopped by Holyfield instead.

Then I'll tell you all about Father Christmas, and the Easter Bunny. Because EVERYONE loves fairy tales.

 

You left out the richest - his flagrant ducking of Bowe.

Yes, ducked somebody who literally binned his belts as though cargo-dumping to lighten a freighter and full-steam-ahead to calmer waters.

I have seen this said. :blood Seriously, no strawman funny biz.

 

Oops my bad I forgot that one. I do apologise. Yep LL ran scared from a guy he'd already stopped in the ama's.

 

:nod ...a guy that rumbled with a prime Holyfield and bested him twice...instead of waiting like a coward to feast on the shell of him a few years later and only coming away 1-1. :-(

 

Chavez is underrated.

Never given enough credit for going up in weight and holding Whitaker to a draw.

 

Cervantes was well past his best and had been gifted his title back after losing it to Benitez. A good name, but not a very impressive win IMO

 

Perhaps Toney's, as much as I like him. Clearly lost against Tiberi and the McCallum rematch. Was embarressed and outclassed by Jones and lost to Griffin (twice) and Thadzi while still in his prime years.

The fact that he beat top fighters from MW to HW is very impressive, but he never dominated any one division and only beat one really good p4p fighter (Nunn). Well, I can accept if one thinks he won the first McCallum fight also, but very close in that case.

 

Barkley was on the lb4lb list when he beat him, as was McCallum.

Reggie Johnson was a quality fighter, and Jirov and Prince Charles Williams were very good world champions. Tim Littles was a great prospect.

 

Tyson

Has 0 great wins, lost every time he stepped up. Was exciting and great at crushing tomato cans though. In the tabloid world of the fake news his ability to self destruct seemed to appeal to the ignorant masses.