Tyson - Bowe in 1996 - who wins?

I'm firmly of the opinion that Bowe's chin wasn't what it seemed to be. I know of a particular cruiserweight that knocked him cold in late 1991 with a dozen or so witnesses in the gym at the time. I know this sounds "way out there" however consider a few of the clues given to us about Bowe circa 1991 with Tyrell Biggs and shortly after that, Tony Tubbs. Bowe was a huge name, on the rise and being marketed a number of attractive ways. Damage control was put into immediate swing before anyone left the gym that day.

Though Bowe could hit like a truck, I have difficulty with the notion of Tyson being right there to hit, given his style (faded as it was) and Bowe's wide, arcing overhand right. The plodding two-step Bowe used circa that period wouldn't zip it with Tyson, who even then still used some sudden angles, especially in close. Bowe's jab wasn't an effective weapon in '96 and he had no short, straight right hand, ala Foreman.

Under the right circumstances Bowe was damned effective on the inside, but again we never saw him on the inside with a big hitter like Tyson, Lewis or even a clubber like Mercer. He looked great on the inside with a bulked-up natural cruiserweight. Tyson for that matter seemed to often waste inside opportunities. I think any inside game gets muffled before sparks could fly. Both would be tense about the other.

This is, IMO, a 40/60 fight for Bowe, circa June-Dec 1996.

 

A more washed up stoned out of his mind Tyson literally broke Golota's neck in a handful of rounds.

Not true.

 

Dont waste your time with him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wass1985 View Post
Concussion my ass, and I'm not buying the injuries either until I see a medical report not some news article.
I have just read a doctors so called report on Golota, I'm still not buying it either.




atsch

 

You pretty much echoed the same point i made earlier about Bowe being too easy to hit.

And your right about his chin, i did a lengthy piece in a previous thread as to why i feel Bowes chin is questionable, ill need to find the thread and copy paste it here. Also Tommy Morrison said he knocked Bowe out while sparring.

 

This is a great post.
I'm curious......let's suppose Tyson is found not guilty and stays active as a heavyweight.
So let's say spring 1993
Bowe post Bowe/Holyfield I
vs. Tyson (closest approximation is Tyson v Ruddock I and II).

Who takes it in your opinion?

I lean toward Tyson as I do agree that Bowe got hit too frequently, and wasn't in there with big punchers typically.
So I think at some point in the first half of the fight, Tyson would catch him and put him down. Bowe might last to the cards though given he can take a beating (Golota I and II, when he was shot as a fighter imo).

Having said that....I think Bowe in his prime, which he would be in this case......you have to think if there's one fighter on the planet at the time that might make Bowe box a smart fight, as opposed to Rocky IV it, it would be Tyson. Maybe Eddie Futch gets Bowe to fight the most disciplined fight of his career.......uses the jab + reach advantage to score on Tyson. Ties Tyson up on the inside (which Tyson let happen too easily), etc.

I think it would've been an amazing fight to see in 1993 timeframe, could've been a Hagler/Hearns where both guys just come in ready to knock out the other guy. Or again, maybe Futch gets Bowe to fight disciplined and win on the cards.

In the end....I'd still bet Tyson, but damn I wish we could've seen this fight.

 

Bowe was beyond done in 96...he went toe to toe with Hide and Golata x2, he even tried it with Donald at little bit earlier who decided to run.

Nobody goes toe to toe with even a diminished version of Tyson.....hands are still too fast, two fisted major power, does not have to set up his shots and up close he still had decent defense....you play that game with a 96 Tyson and you will not make it.

 

Show me the report dumbass not some article, I also read in the same article that Golota suffered seizures after a fight prior to Tyson. I say bull****, he wouldn't be able to fight again if that was the case.

 

hey pp,what do you think bowe vs tyson prime 4 prime??
i think bowe could have beat him.
great to see you giving props to bowe,i know you prefer lewis,but bowe was really something special,especially in 1992...

 

Interesting match-up but here's the thing. This is Mike Tyson we are talking about. Bowe would understand the importance of this fight. He got 2 out of 3 from Holyfield behind him even though he had a big scare in their 3rd fight. He would be more motivated for a Tyson fight than he was for the 1st Golota fight, even the 2nd Golota fight, even the 3rd Holyfield fight. He would try to reach the level he was at for the first fight with Holyfield. Bowe would be dangerous but somehow I think Tyson could pull it out after a few scares... I don't think Bowe would reach that '92 level no matter how hard he trained.

 

You make solid points.

Andrew Golota is the guy I think of when I think of "bad finisher". Golota was horrible at capitalizing and finishing a foe. Horrible. That he didn't finish Bowe in either encounter, and especially the rematch is as much a testament to this aspect of Golota as it is to anything good on Bowe's part.

I don't hate Rid**** Bowe. I just have my own viewpoints on him and his actions which are essentially documented on film. There is a reason he flat-out avoided unfinished business with Lewis. There is a reason he was steered away from explosive punchers. There is a reason he chose no-hopers for his title defenses before the rematch with Holyfield. There is a reason why he suckered Larry Donald...and as long as we are going there, Buster Mathis JR.....an episode that should have been a disqualification loss.

I have to believe Tyson had too many dimensions, faded as he may have been circa 95-96, and too much experience, to lose to a wide punching, truly one-dimensional approach Bowe brought to all of his showings, post championship run. The two step, jab, jab arcing right hand.....he became too predictable and too much of a plodder.

Tyson's power would tell and we'd likely see Bowe go down. Methinks the follow-up would be short and swift. This wouldn't be a case of Bowe's character getting him through an extended 2nd round against the ropes as we saw in the Golota rematch. Tyson would get in, throw two or three short blows and suddenly pivot to his left and land the coup de grace. Lights out!

Circa 1996 I wouldn't bet the farm on a Tyson win, but I'd bet my neighbor's wife and car.

In 1993....hmmmmm. The Tyson I saw in both Ruddock encounters was the best Tyson I had seen since July 1989. Bowe was actually a better boxer and ring general than Ruddock, but was he tougher? Hard to say. Ruddock and Bowe strike me as offensively dangerous but with questionable grills. Neither man had Holyfield's grit, so any mistakes made and Tyson would get them.

Perhaps the answer lies in the 1st two rounds of the 1st Bowe/Holyfield match. Holyfield was a split second better than Bowe over that first round or two because he boxed well on fast feet and got out of the pocket. Bowe wasn't exactly keeping Holyfield at bay behind the left jab the way a Holmes would have, or even as Foreman had sporadically had done a year earlier. Suddenly Holyfield got macho and Bowe looked like a brilliant inside fighter. Without the explosive power of Tyson, Holyfield (a former Bowe sparring mate) was in deep.

I think Tyson would have hurt Bowe where Holy didn't. I haven't seen too much of Bowe under duress to make me believe he'd get out of that, his best night notwithstanding. Tyson had far faster feet than Bowe, plus the confidence and experience Bowe didn't have. I think Tyson gets 1993 Bowe out of there sometime in the first four rounds.

 

Great post - thanks for the response.

Are you of the opinion that Lewis would have taken Bowe out in 93 had that fight gone off?

I've tended to lean Bowe in a 93 matchup, despite the Olympic result, despite not being in with big punchers.....as I think Lewis was too raw then. Pawed more with his jab, easier to hit, not as developed as he was under Manny Steward. Yes, he destroyed Ruddock, and that certainly could've reignited doubts in Bowe's mind to want revenge for 88, plus wanting to have the title for a couple easy fights.

I think Bowe/Lewis 93 might've looked like a younger, sharper, version of Lewis/Vitali. I think Bowe could've scored on the less developed Lewis at that time with his jab. He's more likely to win the exchanges inside. If I was Futch......I would've told Bowe that at all costs, don't get hit by Lewis's big right hand....easier said then done given how often Bowe could be hit.....but I think he could've sustained Lewis's attack in 93.

A Bowe/Lewis rematch in 95, Bowe of the Jorge Luis Gonzalez level, and Lewis post Butler and Fortune, pre Tommy Morrison, so he's got a couple fights with Manny under his belt......basically instead of Bowe/Holyfield III, Holyfield steps aside due to hepatitis, we got Bowe/Lewis II.
I think Lewis at this point does get the job done, either wins a competitive fight on the cards, or he just gets Bowe out of there. Bowe wasn't quite done ala 96, so I tend to think he would've been competitive.

If they woud've finished the trilogy in 96, Lewis retires him Ruddock style quickly in 96.

Boxing is easily the most frustrating sport of all time.....how we didn't get these 2 in the ring is ludicrous and unfortunately still annoys me to this day. At least we got Tyson/Holyfield in 96.......yes 5-6 past the ideal timeframe, but both guys were still formidable, world class fighters, so I feel like those 2 fights 'count' in terms of weighing the two of them against each other.

Just stinks that it's all speculation when it comes to Bowe/Tyson and Bowe Lewis.

 

I've mulled this for over two decades. Truthfully I saw two variants of LL between his wins over Ruddock and a few months later over Tony Tucker. Add his 1991 stoppage of Tyrell Biggs and you have three.

Lenny seemed to run in and land his right hand almost recklessly at times. The Biggs fight made me wonder if he'd ever truly smooth out for the long run. The Ruddock match gave me hope as we saw shades of the sharp-shooter he'd become six or seven years down the road. In the Tucker match, he seemed caught between gears, winning well enough but somehow looking as though he had taken a half step back from the previous outing. To me he continued to go backwards until McCall.

Truthfully, Bowe's best chance for Lewis was right at the point where he won the title....or about the time he had Dokes dug up and dusted off for duty. Ironically, such was the point we saw Lewis with his socks fully pulled up, demonstrating the ability to time and sharp-shoot with great ability.

Bowe was a better and smarter fighter than was Ruddock. Period. And you can bet Lewis knew it. There would be no inside fight, as Bowe would look to box while Lennox would time him and use the left jab. I think its close for two rounds, slight edge to Bowe. Sometime in the 3rd Bowe would get back on the stick and Lewis would zero in more with the jab, at which point Rid**** would begin to reach some, chancing that wide arcing right hand. At that point, suddenly, Lewis would time and counter Bowe. The end would come moments later.

The 1999-2000 variant of Lewis would do it in 2.

I'd bet the farm on it. :good

 

This version of Tyson as shot as he was would still beat Bowe. The big difference being who could take a better punch, and I know there are many who criticize Tyson's chin, but I'm not one of them. The chances of Bowe stopping Tyson the way Lewis did or Douglas did are pretty close to nil. The chances of Tyson stopping Bowe are pretty damn good. And since I don't see it going to the scorecard, Tyson stops him in the mid rounds. 3-6

 

How bout Holyfield/Lewis in Sept. 94?
Let's suppose that Jerry Roth doesn't screw up and forget to give Evander the point for the knockdown in rd 2....thus Holyfield ends up retaining the title.
Assuming Evander is healthy.....who takes it?

I think Evander would get him on points by being the busier, more polished fighter.

Different fight a year later with Steward (though despite the style/physical disadvantages I still give 95' Evander a 50/50 shot to win)....but 94, when it was supposed to go off if Holyfield gets by Moorer....

Who ya got?

 

Assuming Holyfield s****ed by Moorer because the judges managed to get it right, I think the whole heart valve thing still comes to the forefront and he takes a year or so off. Regardless of the outcome in the Moorer match, Holyfied looked off and not anywhere the fighter he was in the Bowe rematch six months earlier.

Months after that, during Holy's extended sabbatical, Lewis gets stopped (albeit in a terrible call to these eyes) by McCall.

If the Holyfield of the Bowe rematch met the Lewis of the Bruno debacle, me thinks Holyfield out-speeds him and out-boxes him late to take a close unanimous win. If we are talking the Holyfield of the Moorer match and the Lewis of the Phil Jackson match, I believe Lewis thoroughly dominates him and possibly even TKO's an ailing 'Real Deal' late. Please note, I didn't think Lewis looked all that good with Jackson, I just think Holyfield looked horrible during that period in 1994, and Lewis, although not polished and seemingly in regression, was of solid pedigree.