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JMM'S strength training/weight lifting- Was that the reason for KO6?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by MVC!, Feb 11, 2015.

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igor_otsky Undefeated Full Member

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acr347 said: ↑

I will bite.I think strength training under heredia was a huge help as well as his gear expertise. Btw imo, all elites, even gatekeepers and journey man are doping, so it's not just him. However heredia is a genius at his craft, and one of the best it seems.

^^^^^^

I thought this article was interesting...

SPIEGEL: Mr. Heredia, will you watch the 100 meter final in Beijing?

Heredia: Of course. But the winner will not be clean. Not even any of the contestants will be clean.

SPIEGEL: Of eight runners ...

Heredia: ... eight will be doped.

SPIEGEL: There is no way to prove that.

Heredia: There is no doubt about it. The difference between 10.0 and 9.7 seconds is the drugs.

SPIEGEL: Can drugs make anyone into a world record holder?

Heredia: No, that is a misapprehension: You take a couple of tablets today and tomorrow you can really fly. In reality you have to train inconceivably hard, be very talented and have a perfect team of trainers and support staff. And then it is the best drugs that make the difference. It is all a great composition, a symphony. Everything is linked together, do you understand? And drugs have a long-term effect: they ensure that you can recover, that you avoid the catabolic phases. Volleyball on the beach might be healthy, but peak athletics is not healthy. You destroy your body. Marion Jones, for example ...

SPIEGEL: ... five-time Olympic medallist at Sydney 2000 ...

Heredia: ... trained with an unparalleled intensity. Drugs protect you from injury. And she triumphed and picked up all the medals.

SPIEGEL: Are you proud?

Heredia: Of course, I still am. It is still a tremendous achievement, and you must not believe that Marions rivals were poor, deceived competitors.

SPIEGEL: This isnt just an American problem?

Heredia: Are you kidding me? No. All countries, all federations, all top athletes are affected, and among those responsible are the big shoe companies like Nike and Adidas. I know athletes who broke records; a year later they were injured and they got the call: Were cutting your sponsorship money by 50 percent. What do you think such athletes then do?

SPIEGEL: Tell us what you did for your clients.

Heredia: Athletes hear rumors and they become worried. That the competition has other tricks, that they might get caught when they travel. There is no room for mistakes. One mistake can ruin a career.

SPIEGEL: So you became a therapist for the athletes in matters of drugs?

Heredia: More like a coach. Together we found out what was good for which body and what the decomposition times were. I designed schedules for ****tails and regimens that depended on the money the athletes offered me. Street drugs for little money, designer drugs for tens of thousands. Usually I sent the drugs by mail, but sometimes the athletes came to me.

SPIEGEL: With Marion Jones ...

Heredia: ... it was about the recovery phases. In 2000 she competed in one event after another, and she needed to relax. I gave her epo, growth hormone, adrenaline injections, insulin. Insulin helps after training, together with protein drinks: insulin transports protein and minerals more quickly through the cell membrane.

SPIEGEL: Jones was afraid of needles.

Heredia: Yes, thats why C. J. Hunter, her husband at the time, and her trainer Trevor Graham mixed her three substances in one injection. I advised them against it because I thought it was risky.

SPIEGEL: What kind of relationship did you have with your athletes?

Heredia: Business ties. It was all about levels and dosing. I rarely spoke with Marion. It was done through her coaches.

Part II: How Heredia outwitted the drug testers and became the dealer to the worlds best athletes.

SPIEGEL: Was there a doping cycle?

Heredia: Yes. When the season ended in October, we waited for a couple of weeks for the body to cleanse itself. Then in November, we loaded growth hormone and epo, and twice a week we examined the body to make sure that no lumps were forming in the blood. Then we gave testosterone shots. This first program lasted eight to ten weeks, then we took a break.

SPIEGEL: And then the goals for the season were established?

Heredia: Yes, that depended on the athlete. Some wanted to run a good time in April to win contracts for the tournaments. Others focused on nothing but the trials, the U.S. qualification for international championships. Others cared only about the Olympics. Then we set the countdown for the goal in question, and the next cycle began. I had to know my athletes well and have an overview of what federation tested with which methods.

SPIEGEL: Where does one get this information?

Heredia: Vigilance. Informers.

SPIEGEL: You were once a good discus thrower yourself.

Heredia: Very good in Mexico, but very average by international standards. I had played soccer, boxed and done karate before I ended up in track and field. At 13 or 14 I believed in clean sports. Doping was a crime to me; back then I even asked my father if I could take aspirin.

SPIEGEL: Why did you begin doping?

Heredia: Like all athletes: because others were doing it. All of a sudden, kids that I used to beat were throwing ten meters further. Then I had an injury but I wanted to qualify for the Olympic team anyway. Doping became to me what it is for most athletes: part of the sport. If you train for 12 hours today and your trainer expects you to train for 12 hours again tomorrow, you dope. Otherwise you cant do it.

SPIEGEL: What did you take?

Heredia: Growth hormone. Testosterone.

SPIEGEL: But you failed to qualify for the Olympics anyway.

Heredia: Yes, but I read anything I could find about medicine, spoke with other athletes, and soon people were saying: Angel knows how its done. He knows how to pass the tests. The first athletes began to ask me for advice. Thats how it started, and at some point the trainer Trevor Graham asked me if I could help him. I explained to him how epo works, and I was in business.

SPIEGEL: What qualified you for the role of dealer to the worlds best athletes?

Heredia: My father is a chemistry professor. I love chemistry, and I was an athlete. My role was an obsession. For example, I learned everything about testosterone: that there is a type of testosterone with a high half-life and another that works very quickly. I learned that you can rub it in, take it orally, inject it. It became a kick: I was allowed to work with the best of the best, and I made them even better.

SPIEGEL: And how did you become the best in your world?

Heredia: With precision. You want an example? Everyone talks about epo. Epo is fashionable. But without adding iron, epo only works half as well. Thats the kind of thing you have to know. There are oxygen carriers that make epo work incredibly fast they are actually better than epo alone. I call my drug Epo Boost. I inject it and it releases many tiny oxygen molecules throughout the body. In that way you increase the effect of epo by a factor of ten.

SPIEGEL: Do you have any other secrets?

Heredia: Oh yes, of course. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they dont excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. Ive created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers.

SPIEGEL: What trainers have you worked together with?

Heredia: Particularly with Trevor Graham.

SPIEGEL: Graham has a lifetime ban because he purportedly helped Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, ****** Gatlin and many others to cheat. Who else?

Heredia: With Winthrop Graham, his cousin. With John Smith, Maurice Greenes coach. With Raymond Stewart, the Jamaican. With Dennis Mitchell ...

SPIEGEL: ... who won gold in the 4 x 100 meters in 1992 and today is a coach. How did the collaboration work?

Heredia: Its a small world. It gets around who can provide you with something how quickly and at what price, who is discreet. The coaches approached me and asked if I could help them, and I said: yes. Then they gave me money, $15,000 or thereabouts, we got a first shipment and then we did business. At some point it led to one-on-one cooperation with the athletes.

SPIEGEL: Was there a regimen of sorts?

Heredia: Yes. I always combined several things. For example, I had one substance called actovison that increased blood circulation not detectable. That was good from a health standpoint and even better from a competitive standpoint. Then we had the growth factors IGF-1 and IGF-2. And epo. Epo increases the number of red blood cells and thus the transportation of oxygen, which is the key for every athlete: the athlete wants to recover quickly, keep the load at a constantly high level and achieve a constant performance.
Click to expand...

ok

igor_otsky, Feb 11, 2015

#16

divac Loyal Member Full Member

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YCGS said: ↑

The biggest difference EASILY:
Pac stepped on JMM's foot. Was a great punch, but the fact that he stepped on his foot is the reason he was out so long.
Click to expand...

There is a price to pay for stepping on JMM's foot.

Step on the man's foot, pay the price! :hi:

divac, Feb 11, 2015

#17

RememberingC.S. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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TheRat said: ↑

JMM's shot would've ko'ed pacquiao 9 times out of 10. fighting 42 rounds together should be enough to figure one another out.
Click to expand...

Sadly, he landed the very same shot more than 10 times in their previous encounters, without even knocking Paquiao down :deal

RememberingC.S., Feb 12, 2015

#18
RememberingC.S. Boxing Junkie Full Member

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acr347 said: ↑

I will bite.I think strength training under heredia was a huge help as well as his gear expertise. Btw imo, all elites, even gatekeepers and journey man are doping, so it's not just him. However heredia is a genius at his craft, and one of the best it seems.

^^^^^^

I thought this article was interesting...

SPIEGEL: Mr. Heredia, will you watch the 100 meter final in Beijing?

Heredia: Of course. But the winner will not be clean. Not even any of the contestants will be clean.

SPIEGEL: Of eight runners ...

Heredia: ... eight will be doped.

SPIEGEL: There is no way to prove that.

Heredia: There is no doubt about it. The difference between 10.0 and 9.7 seconds is the drugs.

SPIEGEL: Can drugs make anyone into a world record holder?

Heredia: No, that is a misapprehension: You take a couple of tablets today and tomorrow you can really fly. In reality you have to train inconceivably hard, be very talented and have a perfect team of trainers and support staff. And then it is the best drugs that make the difference. It is all a great composition, a symphony. Everything is linked together, do you understand? And drugs have a long-term effect: they ensure that you can recover, that you avoid the catabolic phases. Volleyball on the beach might be healthy, but peak athletics is not healthy. You destroy your body. Marion Jones, for example ...

SPIEGEL: ... five-time Olympic medallist at Sydney 2000 ...

Heredia: ... trained with an unparalleled intensity. Drugs protect you from injury. And she triumphed and picked up all the medals.

SPIEGEL: Are you proud?

Heredia: Of course, I still am. It is still a tremendous achievement, and you must not believe that Marions rivals were poor, deceived competitors.

SPIEGEL: This isnt just an American problem?

Heredia: Are you kidding me? No. All countries, all federations, all top athletes are affected, and among those responsible are the big shoe companies like Nike and Adidas. I know athletes who broke records; a year later they were injured and they got the call: Were cutting your sponsorship money by 50 percent. What do you think such athletes then do?

SPIEGEL: Tell us what you did for your clients.

Heredia: Athletes hear rumors and they become worried. That the competition has other tricks, that they might get caught when they travel. There is no room for mistakes. One mistake can ruin a career.

SPIEGEL: So you became a therapist for the athletes in matters of drugs?

Heredia: More like a coach. Together we found out what was good for which body and what the decomposition times were. I designed schedules for ****tails and regimens that depended on the money the athletes offered me. Street drugs for little money, designer drugs for tens of thousands. Usually I sent the drugs by mail, but sometimes the athletes came to me.

SPIEGEL: With Marion Jones ...

Heredia: ... it was about the recovery phases. In 2000 she competed in one event after another, and she needed to relax. I gave her epo, growth hormone, adrenaline injections, insulin. Insulin helps after training, together with protein drinks: insulin transports protein and minerals more quickly through the cell membrane.

SPIEGEL: Jones was afraid of needles.

Heredia: Yes, thats why C. J. Hunter, her husband at the time, and her trainer Trevor Graham mixed her three substances in one injection. I advised them against it because I thought it was risky.

SPIEGEL: What kind of relationship did you have with your athletes?

Heredia: Business ties. It was all about levels and dosing. I rarely spoke with Marion. It was done through her coaches.

Part II: How Heredia outwitted the drug testers and became the dealer to the worlds best athletes.

SPIEGEL: Was there a doping cycle?

Heredia: Yes. When the season ended in October, we waited for a couple of weeks for the body to cleanse itself. Then in November, we loaded growth hormone and epo, and twice a week we examined the body to make sure that no lumps were forming in the blood. Then we gave testosterone shots. This first program lasted eight to ten weeks, then we took a break.

SPIEGEL: And then the goals for the season were established?

Heredia: Yes, that depended on the athlete. Some wanted to run a good time in April to win contracts for the tournaments. Others focused on nothing but the trials, the U.S. qualification for international championships. Others cared only about the Olympics. Then we set the countdown for the goal in question, and the next cycle began. I had to know my athletes well and have an overview of what federation tested with which methods.

SPIEGEL: Where does one get this information?

Heredia: Vigilance. Informers.

SPIEGEL: You were once a good discus thrower yourself.

Heredia: Very good in Mexico, but very average by international standards. I had played soccer, boxed and done karate before I ended up in track and field. At 13 or 14 I believed in clean sports. Doping was a crime to me; back then I even asked my father if I could take aspirin.

SPIEGEL: Why did you begin doping?

Heredia: Like all athletes: because others were doing it. All of a sudden, kids that I used to beat were throwing ten meters further. Then I had an injury but I wanted to qualify for the Olympic team anyway. Doping became to me what it is for most athletes: part of the sport. If you train for 12 hours today and your trainer expects you to train for 12 hours again tomorrow, you dope. Otherwise you cant do it.

SPIEGEL: What did you take?

Heredia: Growth hormone. Testosterone.

SPIEGEL: But you failed to qualify for the Olympics anyway.

Heredia: Yes, but I read anything I could find about medicine, spoke with other athletes, and soon people were saying: Angel knows how its done. He knows how to pass the tests. The first athletes began to ask me for advice. Thats how it started, and at some point the trainer Trevor Graham asked me if I could help him. I explained to him how epo works, and I was in business.

SPIEGEL: What qualified you for the role of dealer to the worlds best athletes?

Heredia: My father is a chemistry professor. I love chemistry, and I was an athlete. My role was an obsession. For example, I learned everything about testosterone: that there is a type of testosterone with a high half-life and another that works very quickly. I learned that you can rub it in, take it orally, inject it. It became a kick: I was allowed to work with the best of the best, and I made them even better.

SPIEGEL: And how did you become the best in your world?

Heredia: With precision. You want an example? Everyone talks about epo. Epo is fashionable. But without adding iron, epo only works half as well. Thats the kind of thing you have to know. There are oxygen carriers that make epo work incredibly fast they are actually better than epo alone. I call my drug Epo Boost. I inject it and it releases many tiny oxygen molecules throughout the body. In that way you increase the effect of epo by a factor of ten.

SPIEGEL: Do you have any other secrets?

Heredia: Oh yes, of course. There are tablets for the kidneys that block the metabolites of steroids, so when athletes give a urine sample, they dont excrete the metabolites and thus test negative. Or there is an enzyme that slowly consumes proteins - epo has protein structures, and the enzyme thus ensures that the B sample of the doping test has a completely different value than the A sample. Then there are chemicals that you take a couple of hours before the race that prevent acidification in the muscles. Together with epo they are an absolute miracle. Ive created 20 different drugs that are still undetectable for the doping testers.

SPIEGEL: What trainers have you worked together with?

Heredia: Particularly with Trevor Graham.

SPIEGEL: Graham has a lifetime ban because he purportedly helped Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery, ****** Gatlin and many others to cheat. Who else?

Heredia: With Winthrop Graham, his cousin. With John Smith, Maurice Greenes coach. With Raymond Stewart, the Jamaican. With Dennis Mitchell ...

SPIEGEL: ... who won gold in the 4 x 100 meters in 1992 and today is a coach. How did the collaboration work?

Heredia: Its a small world. It gets around who can provide you with something how quickly and at what price, who is discreet. The coaches approached me and asked if I could help them, and I said: yes. Then they gave me money, $15,000 or thereabouts, we got a first shipment and then we did business. At some point it led to one-on-one cooperation with the athletes.

SPIEGEL: Was there a regimen of sorts?

Heredia: Yes. I always combined several things. For example, I had one substance called actovison that increased blood circulation not detectable. That was good from a health standpoint and even better from a competitive standpoint. Then we had the growth factors IGF-1 and IGF-2. And epo. Epo increases the number of red blood cells and thus the transportation of oxygen, which is the key for every athlete: the athlete wants to recover quickly, keep the load at a constantly high level and achieve a constant performance.
Click to expand...

But, hey, there isn't doping in the sport. "Otherwise everyone would be champion"

RememberingC.S., Feb 12, 2015

#19

lewis gassed The Bronze Dosser Full Member

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Is JMM-Pac 4 your fav fight of all times?

lewis gassed, Feb 12, 2015

#20
Brixton Bomber Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

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Dude was on roids. Look at that bacne!

Brixton Bomber, Feb 12, 2015

#21
alakran Boxing Addict Full Member

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people accuse Marquez of dopjng like if he looked like super mab in the fourth fight. The truth is thats the worst he looked against pac aside from the knockdowns. He was really slow and to me it looked like Pac was hitting him way more than in previous fights. If it wasnt that he knew Pacquiao inside out and that he is one of the best at timing he wouldve lost. He risked it all by going for the Ko and it worked for him

alakran, Feb 12, 2015

#22

Barrera Defeated Boxing_master Full Member

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weights? steroids? u guys are ****ing IDIOTS..marquez got the knockout because he set up a perfect counter but pac himself was the leading cause behind it being as deadly as it was. PAC RAN INTO IT. if u move into a punch i can tell you right now from experience ITS MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE, iv been hit to the body plenty of times, but my first knockdown came from jumping into a shot. i did not just go down, i was on the floor gasping for air for a good 5 minutes.

anyone with any boxing experience will tell you that pac moving into that counter shot made the knockout

Barrera, Feb 12, 2015

#23
boxing_master Loyal Member banned

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Barrera said: ↑

weights? steroids? u guys are ****ing IDIOTS..marquez got the knockout because he set up a perfect counter but pac himself was the leading cause behind it being as deadly as it was. PAC RAN INTO IT. if u move into a punch i can tell you right now from experience ITS MUCH MUCH MUCH WORSE, iv been hit to the body plenty of times, but my first knockdown came from jumping into a shot. i did not just go down, i was on the floor gasping for air for a good 5 minutes.

anyone with any boxing experience will tell you that pac moving into that counter shot made the knockout
Click to expand...

round 5 after pac knocked down jmm........jmm landed the same shot he landed in round 6 but difference was this time pac never walked into the shot...........pac never went down from that...............jmm got lucky.......

boxing_master, Feb 12, 2015

#24
acr347 Well-Known Member Full Member

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It was the perfect shot..... I will agree on that, and in his post interview he describes how he saw it coming.

acr347, Feb 12, 2015

#25
Beouche Juan Manuel Marquez Full Member

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Yep. That and ten years of pent up rage

:fire:twisted::fire:twisted::fire:twisted::fire Juan = Goodnight Pacquiao

Beouche, Feb 12, 2015

#26

Pound4PoundGG Well-Known Member Full Member

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MVC! said: ↑

Juan Manuel Marquez: This is very different. Ive been working 20-25 days on strength training, building mass and strengthening. Build muscles, build mass, so I can be able to complete at that weight. Build muscle and be big but do it the right way. So I can be able to be effective. Im also working a lot on speed, a lot of techniques. Use different techniques that Im working on.

But with Juan Manuel Marquez, the difference is I designed a weight lifting program, a nutrition program, supplementation program, and everything was made with scientific planning, Heredia continued.

Boxers nowadays don't really emphasize on weight training, but we saw what happened in JMM vs Pac 4. JMM's increased muscle mass was stunning, he was able to knock Pac down and then knock him out in the 6th round.

This is the importance of str training.

Discuss.
Click to expand...

maybe mayweather should pick some weights on his b a lls

Pound4PoundGG, Feb 12, 2015

#27
critix Boxing Addict Full Member

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peds what else?

critix, Feb 12, 2015

#28
Swollen Liver Boxing Addict Full Member

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Jack Kollin said: ↑

Runned out of Floyd thing to discuss??
Click to expand...

No. That troll is only alterning topics. Floyd and JMM KO6.

Swollen Liver, Feb 12, 2015

#29
acr347 Well-Known Member Full Member

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Swollen Liver said: ↑

No. That troll is only alterning topics. Floyd and JMM KO6.
Click to expand...

True.... He really was honestly just wanting to talk about strength training benefiting boxers today, and nothing else. (Not true)

acr347, Feb 12, 2015

#30

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