1991 James Toney vs GGG Golovkin right now

Toney went 24 rounds with 250 lb Sam Peter, and wasn't KO d so he isn't going anywhere when GGG hits him, sorry ain't happening::-(..

Im not a Toney fan, but who's the best fighter GGG has beaten to be compared to a guy like Toney, who had solid 20 year career:huh, WTF??

This GGG, is the flavor of the month I suppose, funny how some folks consider him the greatest thing since sliced bread, but a few short years ago it was Pavlik, then Jeff Lacy, then Edison Miranda, all hype machines, that were eventually exposed...

When this GGG, beats Froch, or Andre Ward, then I'll start waving the pom poms, but I'm not holding my breath..

The way Geale was hitting him, was disturbing, but Geale had no power to follow up..

 

Exactly what I just said.

 

It might be that Golovkin is merely a more educated Hamsho type.

 

I've seen nothing of GGG to garner the hype he currently has .. beating Toney ? No.

 

Flea, you can be a Doubting Thomas as to the "unproved"ability
of Golovkin, BUT to prove your point why do you bring up a Ward
who is a division heavier than GGG, saying Golovkin should
"smash Ward to bits" to PROVE he is a great talent? OK, than why didn't Toney step up to a Michael Spinks, and "smash Spinks to bits", to prove his superior talent ? What's good for the
goose is good for the gander, I should think !!! GGG though never fighting a great MW shows me at least a tremendous talent
with his rib smashing body blows, his great and accurate two handed punching that if connected could stop anyone his weight,
and most likely an iron chin that in over 300 amateur bouts and
his entire pro career , never saw him hit the canvas...What more can you ask of the guy ???

 

PS. In 1992 I saw a Dave Tiberi actually beat a James Tony, though he was not given the decision, And Dave Tiberi was no Golovkin...

 

He's obviously better than Lacy and Miranda ever were, having accomplished more than either and looking way better. Pavlik had a comparable resume but loses on the eye-test, hands down.

 

I am a big fan of GGG but until he proves himself against someone of Toney's caliber and chin I am going with Toney. Toney took shots from fighters from middle to heavy and even in the UFC and his chin has held true. Skill wise at middle/ Toney was awfully good the real difference is Toneys slick defense and infighting. JT by decision

 

I'm taking Toney but ....

I don't know how fighters with such distinct career arcs can be easily compared.

I know these career differentials happen all the time or much of the time with mythological comparisons of fighters between eras but this one also ticks the box of a type that really hits an extreme.


Yes, they were both middleweights but ...

In '91, James was a 22 to 23 year old. Golovkin, in '15, is a 32 to 33 year old.

In the career span of an athlete (in any athletic endeavor) this ten year age differential is material.

Same weight class .. both successful .. the age differential is just a problem to assess and work into the equation.

[Of course, we know Toney would go on from middleweight to fight at every weight class up to heavyweight and remained near impossible to hurt and competitive with much larger fighters. While a lousy era, he did fight into old age. Athletically and as a fighter, that speaks volumes about his toughness. He left middle and did FOUR more weight classes. Gennedy is going to make it one more (SMW). He'll be in his mid-30s before long ... even LHW may well never happen.]

re: Toney vs Golovkin

Forget mere styles (the usual comparative to make a determination), but how does one easily balance out age and the respective timing of such disparate careers?

At an extreme, this is not dissimilar to the problem in comparing prime Tyson (22 years in '88)) against prime Lewis (say around '97 or '98 at 32 or 33 years of age). In this comparative, Lewis is actually a year older than Mike but his "prime" is so much later (and Tyson's was so remarkably early).

In Tyson/Lewis, it seems wrong to merely assess styles and ignore everything else. How do you actually argue the case of two essentially contemporary fighters in which the slightly older man started later and became a factor only after the end of the others' prime? It is a tough argument to make saying that Lewis is better than Tyson when Lewis' best years only came long after Mike had returned from prison the result of standing on the heavyweight mountain top, being feted and fawned over, living every excess, and partying like a king. What would have happened if they had faced off in '90 or '91? What would Lewis have thought about the idea of being thrown in with Mike a year or two after turning pro? They are the same aged athletes. If one is great right now can you be greater coming back many years later when it suits you best?

For those wanting to argue for or put Golovkin on par with Toney, he will soon be nine years into his career and has fought no one (it is not solely his fault - it is a horribly lousy division (more so than (perhaps) ever these past several years)). Still, GGG has fought no one at all in the pros.

Toney in less than three years as a pro was fighting Nunn and Johnson.

Toney was talented and his toughness is unquestionable. Similar to Tyson, he was able to go into the pro mix at an early age. Unlike Mike, he was able to continue into old age as well.

Real hard to put GGG on that pedestal. Pretty small group of fighters that can continue into their mid-40s (even in lousy eras).

For me this is like the "Calzaghe would always be a problem for Hopkins" posts based upon watching Joe struggle to a narrow decision over a 43 year old. The reality is that I see Hopkins easily putting on eight pounds of muscle in '97 - '99 and knocking Joe out in this imagined contest with a prime Hopkins. BHOP is simply and clearly the better fighter merely lacking his engine in '08.

I give far more credit to those athletes that were successful like Toney and Tyson at a young age facing grown men and for those athletes that were able to give away age to much younger men and remain competitive (Hopkins, Toney, even RJJ to some extent).

I give far less credit to those fighters that didn't fight as long as they could have and exited after a couple wins over much older men. But I digress ...

The 22 year old Toney is quicker and younger and tough enough to handle Golovkin. It could well be a rough fight though, because any time you have a good 32 year old man (good if GGG's career proves that out sufficiently) facing a good 22 year old that is often quite a differential in maturity and development. That is the sort of offsetting attributes that we saw with Benn vs McClellan.

Real hard to assess and predict an outcome (with any certainty) when two fighters have such different career arcs.

At least, Golovkin needs to face better opposition and different styles or capabilities in these years or the very thought of comparing him to Toney borders on the ridiculous. How does one easily discern great quality when you are knocking out such mediocre champions and third rate athletes from this pool of lousy middleweights?

Toney passed ring tests in less than three years as a pro. Golovkin will soon be at nine years as a pro (after Murray) and has yet to face a single compelling talent. This is AFTER a quite extensive amateur career as well. Golovkin is not responsible for the lousy era - but, he is not helped in any quest for historical greatness by reaching the finish line with a repetitive collection of weak scalps.

 

You missed my point entirely.

 

I'm not sold on anyone either way... But I'd like to point out that in 1991, James Toney fought 6 times and faced two great fighters in Mike McCallum and Michael Nunn just months apart, along with a few contenders as well.. You're not gonna see Golovkin or anyone else have that type of a year ever again.

 

Golovkin would if he had the chance I think.

 

Perhaps but chance or not, he either will or he won't. Toney actually did it. James Toney and Julio Cesar Chavez are the closest thing activity wise in champions that we've seen to old school fighters within the last 40 years.

 

Veeraphol Sahaprom and Pongsaklek Wonjongkam.

 

Might have something to do with Spinks being retired before Toney even turned pro.