Jeffries v The Corbett of 1896?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mcvey, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    We know that Jim Corbett gave Jeffries a tremendous fight in their first meeting in1900 .

    "The finishing blow came suddenly and was a startling surprise. Corbett had been making a wonderful battle. His defense was absolutely perfect, and while he was lacking in strength, he had more than held his own and stood an excellent chance of winning the fight had it gone the limit. He had not been badly punished and had managed to mark his man severely. The winning punch was a short left to the jaw. Corbett dropped like weight and was clear out. Jeffries showed his ability to take punishment at any distance and hard. He was clearly outboxed and at times was made to look like a novice. The crowd, which numbered fully eight thousand, was with Corbett and his defeat fell upon a silent crowd. There were cheers for him when he revived and left the ring, and he was generally given more consideration than the victor. Corbett is still a factor in pugilistic fame. He has regained much of his old time form. The battle was clean and it is doubtful if there was a single infraction of the rules." (Durango Democrat)

    We also know the nearly 37 33 years old Corbett hadn't fought since losing to Sharkey, a year and a half earlier and that he hadn't won a fight for 6 years.

    If the Corbett of 1896, the one who drew with Sharkey over 6rounds and was 30 years old had been in the ring with Jeffries for their first fight how would the fight have unfolded?
     
  2. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The one who drew with Sharkey gets murdered as he wasn't fight-fit. A peak fit Corbett could win a decision fight, seem to recall he actually sparked Jeff in a training camp?
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    There was an article saying he did. Let's say the 1896 Corbett who is in shape.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I honestly just think that Beast Mode Jeffries is too good, too strong, too fit to lose to a boxer. Eventually you have to out-punch him, or nothing.

    But yeah, there's enough evidence to suggest otherwise.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I think the distance might be crucial here.
    Corbett would have to show a hell of a lot of movement, over 15rds he probably would win, 25rds Jeff might walk him down.
     
  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    If it was a finish fight, Jeff.

    Over 20 or possibly even 30 rounds, Corbett might take a decision.
     
  7. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I dunno, some of the people who saw the 1900 fight thought it was the best Corbett had fought since 1892/Sullivan. Also, 1896 hadn't fought in a couple years, either .... and some thought he was fortunate not to have been matched vs. the Sailor at a longer distance.
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    My best guess, is that the Jeffries of the second Corbett fight, was probably too much for any version of Corbett.

    By this stage he was fighting more offensively, applying more pressure, and had improved at finishing.
     
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    I don't buy this
    The fact that Corbett was finished as a class fighter may have had something to do with Jeffries improved performance second time around don't you think?:think

    In his last fight, only a year earlier Fitz cut Jeffries to pieces,Jeffries was described as looking like a novice and out of his depth in Fitz's hands.The concensus was that Jeffries had only won because of his immense physical advantages and his youth, Fitz was just shy of 40 years old.I can only conclude from this that Jeffries "improvement" is a myth.

    The man responsible for propagating this, "I wasn't prepared to see Corbett out boxed by Jeffries etc ",was one of the most vociferous castigators of him when Fitzsimmons made a complete ****** out of him just a year before.

    Since Jeffries had no fights in between those mentioned where did he acquire this "new found skill," from?
     
  10. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    One thing that is forgotten about Corbett is that physically, he was probably the greatest athlete ever to hold the title. For all the talk of Jeffries and his ability to run world class running and high jump times, it is often forgotten that Corbett himself, when prime actually one a beach sprint against Jeffries.

    If these two fought prime for prime, Corbett would have been Substantialy faster than Jeffries. I also dont think that punching power was as different as many assumed. Corbett hit a lot harder than many people remember, and Jeffries would have certainly had known he was in a fight. AS McVey pointed out, there are reports of him sparking a young Jeffries in training, although from memory, most evidence suggests that this was a little overblown for the papers. And despite the rumours of invincibility with regards to stamina, Corbett is very unersold in this regard He had tremendous stamina, and when young and facing a challenge, as seen in the Sullivan fight and even to a lesser extent Jackson, he was able to stick to his style and not take any chances, meaning Jeffries is going to have difficulties in finishing off Corbett.

    The final point, is that the consensus from those who saw both fight was not necessarilly all in jeffries favour as it usually is today. In fact, many saw the likes of Corbett, Sullivan, Jackson and Fitz as being products of a tougher time (due to rule changes and general attitudes.

    I think that skill wise Jeffries is going to find himself outclassed here. He will be hit as often as the old Jeffries was hit against Johnson, and he will need to soak up twice as much punishment as he did in that fight. He will need to reproduce his KO of Corbett in circumstances where he has been hit a lot more often than he was in his first corbett fight and where Corbett is a lot fresher due to not being hit as often or hard by Jeffries. I say Jeffries wont hit as hard because he wont be able to hit corbett as cleanly as he did in his first fight, which even then wasnt all that often. It isnt that Jeffries cant win but it certainly a much bigger task than anything he ever succeeded in before. In fact, i think it is only perfectly prime Jeffries who has a chance. Opponent for opponent, in terms of actual fighting performance, there is no doubt that Corbett was the better fighter and he wins the fight under modern rules unless Jeffries produces the stoppage. He was better against Choynski and Fitzsimmons. IN fact he dominated for the most part both these fighters, who each gave Jeffries tremendous trouble. I dare say that he would have given a Johnson a better fight than jeffries did, even at his age.

    All in all, i think that Corbett has a far better chance in this one than most think. I cant see him getting overconfident adn therefore, think it unlikely he would get stopped.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Great post that looks at the question from a perceptive angle.:good
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    From the man who had given him problems in his previous fight.

    Fitzsimmons effectively became Jeffries trainer after their second encounter.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    This is overstated they went on a vaudeville tour together giving exhibitions.Neither was in shape, Jeffries complained that Fitz was hitting him too hard and Fitz told him to lose that silly crouch. Do you agreee Corbett was thoroughly washed up when he rematched Jeffries? If you do the win is practically worthless.
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    When Fitzsimmons realized that he was never going to get the title back from Jeffries, he decided to make Jeffries into the best fighter that he could be. Jeffries credited Fitzsimmons with improving his offense. Some of their exhibitions were fairly hammer and tongs affairs. Fitzsimmons tole of how Jeffries once had him out on his feet but did not follow up, because he thought that Fitz was foxing. Fitzsimmons turned down a fight with Denver Ed Martin, because he could make more money sparring Jeffries.

    I don't know how much Corbett had left at the time of the second Jeffries fight, because there is no subsequent fight to frame it by. I would say that Corbett still had a lot left at the time of the McCoy fight, if it was on the level.
     
  15. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    When Jeffries rematched Corbett ,GentleMan Jim was a month off of 37 years old and had not fought a contest in 3 years, only oxygen in his corner enabled him to last as long as he did, it was a rout!

    "James J. Jeffries, champion heavyweight of the world, played with Jim Corbett for nine rounds and a half tonight and then Corbett's seconds motioned Referee Graney to stop the fight in order to save their man from needless punishment. The end came shortly after the beginning of the tenth round, when Jeffries planted one of his terrific left swings on Corbett's stomach. The man who conquered John L. Sullivan then dropped to the floor in agony, and the memorable scene at Carson City, when Bob Fitzsimmons landed his solar plexus blow, was almost duplicated. This time, however, Corbett struggled to his feet and again faced his gigantic adversary. With hardly a moment's hesitation, Jeffries swung his right and again landed on Corbett's stomach. Jim dropped to the floor, and then it was that Tommy Ryan, seeing that it was all over, motioned to Referee Graney to stop the punishment."
    Baltimore Morning Herald - August 15, 1903"
    To equate Jeffries performance in this fight with improved technique is farcical.