Lennox Lewis. Does he have some holes in his legacy?

I don't know. I never like their styles, but ....
Where do you rate them against Grant, Botha, Tua and Rahman ?

I think Byrd would have schooled Tyson in 2002, to be honest.

 

I'd rank them on par with the average contender Lewis met. So if he'd beaten them he'd have two more beaten contenders to his name. Not bad, but it wouldn't make any real difference

But in terms of the stylistical difficulty these guys would pose, I can't think of many contenders around that period that would seem so relatively harmless to Lewis.

Ruiz wasn't the least bit slick, had no real punch and his mauling tactics wouldn't work well against the bigger and stronger Lewis. He had no edge whatsoever.

Byrd might make Lewis look bad at stretches, but without any real ability to hurt him I can't see him holding Lewis off. He doesn't look as totally bereft of any reasonable chance as Ruiz, but he doesn't really feel threatening either.

 

Tyson's prime lasted one year (at most) after Lennox turned professional. Lewis was still learning his trade.

 

Any fighter does if you go through their career with a fine enough comb.

Lewis didn't avoid Bowe, he lost his title.

Bowe was only going to face Lewis "later" if Lewis beat McCall so it would be a title match - on June 17th 1994 it was announced that they had an agreement to make the fight provided Lewis got past McCall. That obviously fell through, then while Lewis was rebuilding his career Bowe had his rubbermatch with Holyfield.

Then they made another agreement to fight in 1996 and had a contract drawn up for an autumn date but then Bowe got beat pillar to post by Golota scarpering that potential fight, then he repeated that feat in a rematch and retired making a potential fight impossible.

Lewis did not "wait" until Holyfield and Tyson were past their best.

Tyson was in prison or suspended for most of the 1990's and Lewis wanted to fight him in 1996 but Tyson fought Seldon to unify the WBC and WBA before dumping the WBC to fight Holyfield instead. When he return from his suspension he avoided Lewis until the money on offer was too big to turn down.

Lewis would have fought Holyfield in 1993 if Holyfield hadn't lost to Bowe. They would have fought in 1994 if Holyfield hadn't lost to Moorer. From 1994 to 1998 Lewis was rebuilding his career and Holyfield was settling old scores with Moorer and Bowe. 1999 represented the first time both men made the date of the fight without slipping up. Neither man avoided the other, circumstances worked against them.

Lewis rematched Holyfield because Holyfield was holding the WBA and IBF Titles and the draw that their first fight resulted in was highway robbery - Lewis won that fight clearly, everyone apart from two judges could see it, it was one of the worse calls in boxing history - because of that farce a rematch had to happen so justice could be done.

Bruno, on the other hand, Lewis stopped in the 7th round. There was no need for a rematch because Lewis decisively ended that fight in the middle rounds.

Grant was considered the most dangerous opponent for Lewis at the time and it was the fight everyone wanted to see him make.

Ruiz had done nothing to prove his worth on the world stage in 1999/2000 and wasn't even WBA #1 contender when Lewis signed to fight Grant. Lewis was prepared to fight the WBA's #1 contender, and the WBA were prepared to allow Lewis to fight Grant first then their man second, but Don King took Lewis to court to get him stripped.

Byrd would have been a good name on Lewis's resume but it wasn't just Lewis's fault that the fight didn't happen. Lewis was after a second fight with Tyson and fights with the Klitschko's when Byrd was IBF #1 contender, and Byrd's promoter didn't want to make a fight with his man and Lewis but instead preferred to set up a fight between two of his stable for a vacant belt. King paid Lewis $1,000,000 and gave him a new car to further entice him into dropping the belt.

It would have been good for him to have beaten Vitali a second time to clear up all doubt, but he did meet Vitali on equal terms and beat him so while its a bit of a tarnish to his resume it's not a major thing.

Moorer wanted nothing to do with Lewis and made no attempt to make a fight with him.

Sanders was a nobody until he beat Wlad and that was far too late to get a shot at Lewis.

Ibeabuchi went to prison shortly after reaching the world stage and never had a chance to establish himself properly in the division let alone get a shot at Lewis.

Neither McCall or Rahman "gave" Lewis a rematch.

Lewis offered McCall $10million shortly after his defeat in 1994 for a rematch but McCall refused the offer saying he had been disrespected by Lewis and he wouldn't give Lewis a rematch for $100million. Lewis then fought his way back into title contention with the WBC over a few years and they set up a rematch between him and McCall. McCall had no say in the matter, and was in no way fit mentally to make any decisions like that at the time.

The contract for first Lewis/Rahman fight had a rematch clause that Lewis enforced. Rahman wanted an easier first title defence and didn't want to fight Lewis a second time but Lewis took him to court to get his rematch.

 

Miles Lane was the referee for the second Lewis/McCall fight. The ref for the first one was Jose Garcia.

 

So has Ingemar Johannson, Gene Tunney and Rocky Marciano. It's a nice accomplishment but by no means some end all on a fighter's ability or superiority to another fighter. Anyone can grab an arbitrary stat that favors or hinders a fighter if their choosing. I could say never faced a southpaw, never got off the canvas to win etc. I can point out the lack of size in Rocky's opponents. The lack of color in Gene's. Etc.
Wlad has unified and made 17 defenses and counting he is undefeated in over a decade and a champion over 9 years. You don't accomplish that without being great. Otherwise many others would have.

 

I don't disagree. But I don't think Botha, Tua, Rahman were real threats either, stylistically ..... okay, Rahman proved me wrong.

I think people also forget that Lewis rejected Chris Byrd and signed to fight Kirk Johnson instead !
Kirk Johnson had lost to John Ruiz a couple of fights earlier.

To Lewis's credit, he took Vitali Klitschko on at late notice when Johnson pulled out.
Still, it raises questions over his choices of opponents those last two years.

I don't know if there was some sort of deal where Lewis was paid by Don King to duck Byrd, and if so, who came up with that.
I certainly stand by everything I've said about Lewis being FAR FROM a "victim" of promotional/establishment status quo, and actually a very savvy and manipulative operator in his own right, who curried a lot of favour with the suits that run the show.

 

MAJR...good post.
Byrd was not seen as a marketable fight for LL by Steward.He thought Byrd would make for a dull fight and whilst presenting no threat it was a bad fight for LL to take.
Lennox ducked nobody .
He had to re match Holyfield because ridiculously,the first fight was scored as a draw.

 

I dont think it was an official deal or anything like that, it was just something Don King did to make the prospect of relinquishing the belt more attractive to Lewis.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2002-09-05-lewis-ibf-belt_x.htm

Lewis' decision to vacate the IBF title was made easier when promoter Don King — seeking to put Byrd and Evander Holyfield together to fight for the vacant belt — paid Lewis $1 million and gave him a sports utility vehicle to give up the title.
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King's ultimate plan - the most preferable end goal of his machinations - was to have Holyfield as IBF Champion (provided he beat Byrd) fight Roy Jones Jr as WBA Champion (provided he beat Ruiz) in a super fight to create a new unified champion and then, who knows? Maybe entice Lewis into another mega-fight bringing the WBC and Ring titles with him. Regardless King had other plans for that belt that did not involve Byrd fighting Lewis for it.

 

Tua and Rahman posed a stylistical problem to anyone in that they could take just about anyone out if they landed the right punch.

But I'm not saying they were fantastic wins in any way. Lewis main achievement was beating most of the top contenders of his day and often in emphatic fashion. He's a bit like Tyson in that sense. With the difference that he has the win over Vitaly. Tyson never beat anyone as good as prime Vitaly even when he was at his best.

It seems fairly safe to say that Lewis heart was out of the sport after beating Tyson. He was probably mostly after safe paydays by then, but to his credit he didn't stay around for long and took on one more very credible challenge.

 

There were only 3 southpaws. Sanders was sh*t, and only became aware to the public by KTFO Wlad in March 2003. Lewis fought 3 months later and beat the other one TKO - 6. Remember?

Moorer wanted no part of Lewis, and it has already been explained over, and over again why Lewis Byrd didn't happen. The clues are a million dollars + a car from King.

I could care less about Johansonn who held a title for a year, or Tunney, who's Heavyweight career could be written on a postage stamp.

As for Marciano he fought guys bigger than him, and smaller, as did Lennox, so what?

 

Good post!:good

 

Another well considered post!:good

 

quite a few