Real Life Rocky - Holmes vs Weaver I

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Me (2nd from the right) and Mike Weaver

 

:good Agreed.

 

Just watched this for the first time. Love the old fights at the garden! Just such a dramatic atmosphere!

Weaver was one of the few heavyweights from the 80's to squeeze everything out of his talent. He probably overachieved!! Great fight. Holmes had to really did down for this one.

 

I've often wondered if Weaver'd had won, how he would have then fared against Shavers, who was a totally different style.

 

Another discussion of a tough fight for Holmes and another reference to a Holmes excuse for why the fight was tough. Whether the source for the excuse is the fighter himself or hearsay, the fact is boxer excuses a are almost as old as the wheel.

 

Look, boxing is filled with excuses .. who knows if it is true or not .. Holmes dominated early, seemed to go flat, Weaver fought an amazing fight, Weaver was a huge puncher and Holmes eventually stopped him .. the big money was for a Shavers rematch at the time not to mention one ha had to fight .. that being said a rematch would have been justified but Weaver was on a good run, won a title and Holmes was hitting the big money w Ali and then ****ey and with the alphabet political nonsense it did not happen .. then Weaver lost a few and that was that ..

 

Funny thing was, at the time, it was considered the absolute worst performance of Larry Holmes' career (because Weaver - a journeyman - had given him such a rough night).

That all changed when Mike Weaver knocked out John Tate in 1980 to become the WBA champ.

The morning after Weaver stopped Tate, Holmes' win over Weaver suddenly became one of the most important wins of Holmes' career - because they were the only heavyweights with belts (the IBF and WBO didn't exist yet) and Holmes had already stopped Weaver in a title fight.

On top of that, John Tate was supposed to fight a comebacking Muhammad Ali. After Weaver stopped Tate, Ali didn't consider Weaver a viable opponent. So he focused on Holmes.

If Tate had faced Ali and won, the WBA lineage would've been seen as the lineal championship. And Larry Holmes might be viewed as Ernie Terrell and Jimmy Ellis today.

So the Holmes-Weaver fight paid benefits to Holmes long after it had been fought.

There's a lesson in there somewhere ... about showing up even when you're sick, fighting through adversity, not getting down on yourself after a "seemingly"bad performance and all that.

 

He didn't "knock Weaver out."

Don Dunphy aside, most thought the stoppage was terrible. The highlights always show Holmes flooring Weaver with that monster uppercut. But Weaver got up. The round ended. The next round began. Holmes (who was badly hurt, too, when he landed the uppercut in the 11th) came out for the 12th and landed a series of one-twos, and the fight was waived off.

It was a terrible stoppage.

One of the worst active referees at the time (Harold Valan - who gave Ellis the win over Patterson) stopped the fight. Holmes wasn't getting paid that night. He'd agreed to fight on HBO because no national network wanted the fight. He took a percentage of "something" as his purse, and he entered the ring knowing he likely wasn't going to make a dime. Duran-Palomino was added to the card and nearly everyone who showed up came to watch that fight. Holmes-Weaver was supposed to last three rounds or so, and then Weaver came on and had Holmes in real trouble.

Holmes was badly hurt in the 11th, and Holmes basically landed one uppertcut to floor Weaver. Holmes was also in terrible shape after the fight. There's always been a question if he could've made it 15.

Valan seemed to be stopping it because Holmes was the name and Weaver was an absolute nobody ... and it was time for everyone to go home before Holmes lost.

Because Holmes was hurt just as bad in the 11th, when he walked himself back into a corner, and Valan didn't stop the fight. And he shouldn't have, just like he shouldn't have when Weaver was on the ropes in the 12th.

I've watched that fight a 100 times and saw it live, and that stoppage ranks right up there with one of the most disappointing. That fight was a "classic" and deserved to run to its natural conclusion. Either guy could've won by an actual stoppage with four rounds to go. Holmes didn't knock out anyone that night.

It would've been like if, after Douglas got off the floor against Tyson, the ref had stopped the fight and raised Tyson's hand in the ninth after Tyson landed a couple shots.

It was unwarranted.

 

I disagree .. Holmes was teeing off on Weaver, landing flush straight rights and uppercuts and Weaver was wobbling against the ropes basically getting pummeled .. Weaver was off balance and staggering when the ref stopped it .. how many flush shots should a guy take while wobbling against the ropes ?

 

And Mike barely rose off the canvas the round before after being dropped by that huge upper cut. Weaver was fading, and there were still 3 rounds to go.

 

I disagree. Holmes missed half the shots he was throwing. Weaver had begun to throw back. I'm not saying Weaver was "fresh." The fight was a war. Holmes wasn't fresh either. But you don't stop that fight right there.

If you stop a fight when Holmes lands some hard jabs and strong rights, both Holmes-Shavers fights would've been stopped in the first round.

Go back and watch Holmes' defenses before that against Evangelista and Ocasio, and the beatings they were allowed to take while offering absolutely nothing in return. Hell, I think Ocasio was down four times in the last round. I can't recall. And the night Weaver stopped Tate, Holmes beat Leroy Jones round after round with nothing coming back. And it went on for a half hour.

And then you move on to Holmes Weaver, and Larry's in the fight of his life, and the ref stops it like that? When Holmes was dominating guys, they let him beat them half to death. When Larry was in a war with Weaver, they stop it the first chance they get. That stoppage was WAY OUT of the norm for that time.

What burns even more is - and nobody knew it at the time - Weaver was at his best in the late rounds. He came on after being way behind to stop Tate. He came on after being way behind to stop Coetzee. He came on after being behind to draw with Dokes.

Larry had a lot of clean knockouts in his career. That Weaver fight wasn't one of them. If there were message boards at the time, I'm sure that conclusion would've lit up the boards.

It was a great fight, though. One of my all-time favorites. It's hard to get riled up about it because it was such a pleasure to watch - and still is. But the stoppage at the end was disappointing and came WAY too early. You let them fight until the fighters decide matters - like Tyson-Douglas.

 

You could say the exact same thing regarding Tyson-Douglas.

And, like Tyson-Douglas, Weaver wasn't fading. He was coming on. Holmes was hurt and backed into the corner. And Weaver was hitting him when Holmes flattened him. Same thing happened in Tyson-Douglas.

 

Holmes - Shavers II was already on the books for late September when Larry fought his "tune up" against Weaver. Earnie earned that rematch by way of KOing Ken Norton. It was Norton who was supposed to get the rematch in the autumn of '79. Immediately after the Weaver fight Holmes actually requested a postponement of his Shavers II bout, a request that was declined by Don King.

Mike Weaver was thought to be such a weak opponent that U.S. network television, which broadcast all heavyweight title fights in those days, declined to air it. HBO then picked it up.

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"Funny thing was, at the time, it was considered the absolute worst performance of Larry Holmes' career (because Weaver - a journeyman - had given him such a rough night).

That all changed when Mike Weaver knocked out John Tate in 1980 to become the WBA champ.

The morning after Weaver stopped Tate, Holmes' win over Weaver suddenly became one of the most important wins of Holmes' career - because they were the only heavyweights with belts (the IBF and WBO didn't exist yet) and Holmes had already stopped Weaver in a title fight.

On top of that, John Tate was supposed to fight a comebacking Muhammad Ali. After Weaver stopped Tate, Ali didn't consider Weaver a viable opponent. So he focused on Holmes.

If Tate had faced Ali and won, the WBA lineage would've been seen as the lineal championship. And Larry Holmes might be viewed as Ernie Terrell and Jimmy Ellis today.

So the Holmes-Weaver fight paid benefits to Holmes long after it had been fought."

--

^^

All true, Dubblechin. Even Ring magazine gave World Champion status to Holmes after Weaver knocked out Tate, by virtue of Holmes' previous victory over Weaver. The Weaver fight paid big dividends to Holmes in terms of practical experience and in lineal champion status.

 

When I watched it I thought the stoppage was a bit premature also.
I guess Weaver might have been incredibly fatigued and it might have been justified, but it looked a bit soon to me.