Jerry ****ey vs prime Ron Lyle

I think Lyle would have won. It's Gerry not Jerry by the way

 

Lyle was a tough and powerful guy. He went toe toe with a nearly prime Foreman and nearly kod him. He gave a still very good Ali a hell of a tough fight. The Lyle who lost to ****ey was an empty shell who had bee kod in 2 by no name Lynn Ball BEFORE he lost to ****ey. I think prime Lyle could take some of what ****ey had to offer, and more importantly, would be very dangerous to the defensively deficient ****ey. There was a huge difference between the Lyle who fought ****ey and prime Lyle.

 

No. The hungover ****ey was who Spinks fought. A non-hungover, serious ****ey knocks out Spinks.

 

I guess Lynn Ball beats a prime Ron Lyle according to some here too. atsch

 

Agreed.

 

I'm not sold one way or the other on weather or not a prime C00ney beats Spinks. But I seriously doubt Butch Lewis would want his man in the ring with the C00ney of 1980 - seven years before their actual meeting. By the time they fought in June of '87, Gerry had only seen one round of boxing action in two and a half years and showed up at a career high 238 lbs. He was noticeably deconditioned and that says nothing about the marked history of drug and alcohol use along with his loss for the love of the game.. Again not sure on who takes it, but I am almost positive it would be a very different fight.

 

C00ney broke Lyle's rib. That's why the fight was stopped. It wasn't stopped because Lyle was too slow or he had brain damage or he got outslicked or he'd taken too many shots in his career. Lyle wasn't even "knocked out."

Gerry threw a monster hook to the ribs and a rib bone broke (in fact, I think three broke. But I'd have to check.) Lyle went down. It was over. He couldn't get up. His rib was broken.

Any claim that Lyle could take that shot to the rib "better" a few years earlier is ridiculous.

No matter when they faced each other, C00ney was going to rip that left hook to the body over and over and over again.

C00ney could've faced Norton, Young or Lyle 10 times, and he stops them every time, because he was better than they were. They didn't do anything earlier in their careers that would've prevented them from losing the way they did when they actually fought him. Age isn't what did them in against him. His style and his power and his height were all wrong for them.

Just like C00ney could fight Foreman 10 times, and George stops him every time. ****ey was easy to hit his entire career. Foreman was relatively easy to hit his entire career. C00ney ripped Foreman with his best shots in the first, and Foreman admitted they hurt. But George could and did take them. C00ney, on the other hand, had a poor defense and couldn't take Foreman's shots. Ever.

Sometimes, you can say a guy is old and the skills he lost caused him to lose when he was old (Ali is exhibit A). Ali could dance all night, throw incredibly fast and hard punches in his youth. Against Holmes, he could barely throw anything. And he couldn't dance at all. He was done. He lost because his skills were gone. And he absorbed a long-drawn out beating.

That wasn't the case when Norton, Lyle and Young lost to C00ney. Norton couldn't take a punch better as a youth. Lyle's rib bones weren't stronger. Young wasn't some expert at slipping the jab. Young feasted on looping punchers. When Ali jabbed, he hit Young repeatedly. When Norton jabbed, he hit Young repeatedly. Same with Dokes, Ocasio, etc. C00ney's jab would've always pounded Young.

Doesn't seem that complicated. Ali-Holmes would've been a much different fight if Ali was 25. C00ney-Norton, C00ney-Lyle would've always been the same fight.

 

Agree 100% with this.. About the only difference I see between aged versions of Lyle, Norton and Young facing Gerry as opposed to younger ones, is that the latter might have lasted a bit longer.. But that's about it.

 

Actually Dubblechin, It's an utterly ridiculous argument to say that because C00ney landed a full-blooded shot to break Lyle's ribs in 1980 then he'd land the exact same shot and cause the exact same effect if he'd fought a prime C00ney.

It's basic principle of boxing to know that possibly the main diference between a prime and an over-the-hill fighter is the ability to see the big punches coming, anticipate them, avoid them completely, or move in such a way as to minimize their effects.

I mean, by your logic, every over-the-hill fighter who got caught by a KO punch by a younger fighter would have lost to the same fighter in the same way in his prime. :huh

 

Wow, no other fighter gets this kind of allowance for beating up on washed-up has-beens.

 

If he was good enough to knock out prime versions of those contenders it really makes you wonder why he was NEVER matched with actual contemporary contenders. Not ever.

 

If you read doublechin's post he gives some very good reasons for why those guys shouldn't be favored against him.. You don't have to agree.

A. Because he didn't have to in order to get a big pay day.

B. Because it wasn't just HIM who was ducking. C00ney's people tried like hell to get him a fight with Mike Weaver, but Bob Arum Swayed the WBA to have Weaver fight #4 ranked Tillis instead of C00ney.. Had those two met, I would have picked Gerry to beat Weaver.

 

Lyle wouldn't have avoided those shots. He was constantly in people's face and Gerry threw a left to the body better than anyone. He always would have been subjected to getting hit there..

 

What?

I specifically pointed out why that IS NOT the case. Did you read what I wrote about a 25-year-old Ali?

I don't know how much clearer to be.

And Lyle wasn't knocked out. HIS RIB WAS BROKEN. Young wasn't knocked out. HIS FACE WAS RIPPED TO SHREDS BY POUNDING JABS. Norton was knocked out.

What was so different about the YOUNGER versions of Norton, Lyle, and Young that would've changed the outcomes of their fights with C00ney?

Was Norton's chin made of steel as a young fighter? Did Jimmy Young forget how to slip a jab? Were Lyle's ribs somewhere else in his body that C00ney's left hook couldn't reach?

 

I read the post.

Just a load of blanket statements to the effect that "they wouldn't have avoided the punches", "they wouldn't have done anything different", "C00ney was better than them in their primes."

All of which flies in the face of basic knowledge about depleted and badly over-the-hill fighters. They are easier to hit, easier to put away. FAR EASIER.

Tell me, how does prime Ron Lyle do against Lynn Ball ?