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A question to Roy Jones Jnr fans about his win over J Toney

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Feb 19, 2015.

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Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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bailey said: ↑

When the trainer was training snr, he seemed far more vocal, but with jnr, he is alot more quiet and I dont think he looked comfy talking
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Yeah, I get that impression as well. I think he's willing to put up with wearing and muzzle and even being disrespected because he's just happy to get another opportunity to ride on the merry-go-round again.

Serge, Mar 2, 2015

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BlizzyBlizz Loyal Member Full Member

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He's bumping his threads with his alts lol...

BlizzyBlizz, Mar 2, 2015

#557

Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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BlizzyBlizz said: ↑

He's bumping his threads with his alts lol...
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lol Sherlock Homeless gets it wrong again. Go and suck up to the mods again SnitchySnitch ESB's resident whipping boy and Serge's own personal b*tch. :rofl

Serge, Mar 2, 2015

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madpuppy Well-Known Member Full Member

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There is no point in replying to nationalistic trolls. For a proper discussion it is best to go to the British forum, where bailey and Super Hans don't even post, but there are plenty of excellent knowledgeable posters.

madpuppy, Mar 2, 2015

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BlizzyBlizz Loyal Member Full Member

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madpuppy said: ↑

There is no point in replying to nationalistic trolls. For a proper discussion it is best to go to the British forum, where bailey and Super Hans don't even post, but there are plenty of excellent knowledgeable posters.
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Ad Serge to the list of degenerates as well. ****en alt lol...

BlizzyBlizz, Mar 2, 2015

#560
lordofmay Member Full Member

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bailey said: ↑

What questions werent answered?
Why do you say that? I get the impression you may not have, with what you are trying to argue

We are starting to get there with you. The point is, it showed a style weakness and that is something you cannot answer against even with the waffling.
Toney struggled with both Tiberi and Williams and you said they had the same gameplan and trainer and both caused problems. You try and site Williams got knocked out as some counter arguement is wasnt a tough fight for Toney atsch, when if you have seen it would know for long periods that it was a tough fight
Is that part to me?
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How is it a style weakness when he beats multiple world title winning opponents who use that same tactic against him? Who has he lost to that used that style against him? Are you getting the point yet?

In fact you're the one who said elite opponents could expose the weaknesses Toney showed against Tiberi. Are you actually trying to suggest Toney needed a KO to win the Williams fight or that is was some out-of-nowhere lucky punch? I means you're seriously trying to argue a fight where Toney got the better of nearly every exchange. Williams actually stepped back and boxed with Toney in the last two rounds because either he was too tired to lean on him or he thought he needed a KO.

I've watched that fight multiple times recently. You are trying to argue a victory that Toney would have won on the scorecards and instead won by knockout against a much better opponent than Dave Tiberi. It was a style weakness because IT WAS A TOUGH FIGHT FOR LONG PERIODS. That was your argument.
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lordofmay, Mar 2, 2015

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bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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madpuppy said: ↑

There is no point in replying to nationalistic trolls. For a proper discussion it is best to go to the British forum, where bailey and Super Hans don't even post, but there are plenty of excellent knowledgeable posters.
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Listen to sadmuppet. Where has there been any trolling here?
What has been said thats trolling?
Where has there been any nationalistic trolling? There hasnt, and this is just a comment you have made that you wont even try and back up

bailey, Mar 2, 2015

#562

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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BlizzyBlizz said: ↑

Ad Serge to the list of degenerates as well. ****en alt lol...
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I thought you had run off this thread again SissySiss?
Serge ties you up in knots in every debate you enter into with him. I think you just come on here to be pwned

bailey, Mar 2, 2015

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bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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lordofmay said: ↑

How is it a style weakness when he beats multiple world title winning opponents who use that same tactic against him? Who has he lost to that used that style against him? Are you getting the point yet?

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It is noted that Toney has said himself that he lost to Tiberi. Yet you are trying to argue that Toney claimed a fight that he thinks he lost. Either way, whether you think he won or loss, he struggled with that style.
Lets try and give you another example as you really are this silly.
Hopkins seems to struggle with fast, two handed fighters, his own size. That didnt mean he couldnt beat lower tier fighters like that, but the better fighters who match that description above were often able to capitalise on that.

In fact you're the one who said elite opponents could expose the weaknesses Toney showed against Tiberi.
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I said something along the lines of elite opponents can expose style weaknesses which have been previously exposed, yes

Are you actually trying to suggest Toney needed a KO to win the Williams fight or that is was some out-of-nowhere lucky punch?
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No. How many times? No, im not saying that. Im saying it was a tough fight for Toney due to a certain style, and amusingly you felt it was an identical game plan as Tiberi by the same trained, which matches perfectly to what I wrote

I means you're seriously trying to argue a fight where Toney got the better of nearly every exchange.

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He didnt get the better of every exchange, it was a close fight where Toney was even behind on one card and the commentary going into the later rounds felt it was anybodies fight? Why deny this?

Williams actually stepped back and boxed with Toney in the last two rounds because either he was too tired to lean on him or he thought he needed a KO.

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Yeah maybe. So what? He was a former LHW. What point are you trying to make here?

I've watched that fight multiple times recently. You are trying to argue a victory that Toney would have won on the scorecards
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No im not. This is you being thick and not what I have said at all. I said it was a tough fight for Toney where style problems were again revealed

and instead won by knockout against a much better opponent than Dave Tiberi.
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Different fight, different fighter. Look at how ward looked more convincing against Kessler than he did Boone for example. different fight, different fighter, different punches landed etc.
This doesnt remove the Tiberi fight happening or how tough it had been before the KO

It was a style weakness because IT WAS A TOUGH FIGHT FOR LONG PERIODS. That was your argument.
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The style that made it tough for long periods was a style weakness for Toney
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bailey, Mar 2, 2015

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lordofmay Member Full Member

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bailey said: ↑

It is noted that Toney has said himself that he lost to Tiberi. Yet you are trying to argue that Toney claimed a fight that he thinks he lost. Either way, whether you think he won or loss, he struggled with that style.
Lets try and give you another example as you really are this silly.
Hopkins seems to struggle with fast, two handed fighters, his own size. That didnt mean he couldnt beat lower tier fighters like that, but the better fighters who match that description above were often able to capitalise on that.
I said something along the lines of elite opponents can expose style weaknesses which have been previously exposed, yes
No. How many times? No, im not saying that. Im saying it was a tough fight for Toney due to a certain style, and amusingly you felt it was an identical game plan as Tiberi by the same trained, which matches perfectly to what I wrote

He didnt get the better of every exchange, it was a close fight where Toney was even behind on one card and the commentary going into the later rounds felt it was anybodies fight? Why deny this?
Yeah maybe. So what? He was a former LHW. What point are you trying to make here?
No im not. This is you being thick and not what I have said at all. I said it was a tough fight for Toney where style problems were again revealed
Different fight, different fighter. Look at how ward looked more convincing against Kessler than he did Boone for example. different fight, different fighter, different punches landed etc.
This doesnt remove the Tiberi fight happening or how tough it had been before the KO
The style that made it tough for long periods was a style weakness for Toney
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Hahahahahahaha please read that back to yourself along with all your other previous threads.

I'll ask again, who did Toney lose to with that style?

Lol so Toney said in an interview that he thought he lost to Tiberi? Damn you're right, def wasn't just an off night, clearly a stylistic weakness.

Again your trying to say I proved your point about it being a weakness by saying Williams was a tough fight. Did you seriously forget your own previous statements? You said an elite fighter could use the Tiberi plan to expose Toney the same way. Charles Williams, a much better fighter than Tiberi, used this plan. He lost his fight with Toney by KO and would have lost on every scorecard had the fight not been stopped. Did I make it simple enough for you? So its a stylistic weakness due to an off night against Tiberi. The point I was making about a rematch is that unless you have an IQ of zero, obviously Toney beats Tiberi decisively.

Again you realize that YOU ARE IN FACT trying to argue that a fight Toney won very clearly proves your point about a stylistic weakness. I can start pulling more examples if the Williams fight is too hard to understand. Iran Barkley had the same plan...

Also a sidenote, what about Williams being a former LHW?
Toney's previous fight he weighed 181 lbs
Williams previous fight he weighed 171 lbs.

Weight drain was a factor for Toney not Williams lol.

Good example about Hopkins but it completely contradicts your point. He can beat quick fighters on a lower tier, but not elite level ones. Toney, who thinks he lost to Tiberi, beat multiple opponents who are much better than Tiberi but used the same approach. So in your mind it was clearly a style he just couldn't handle as opposed to an off night right?

I love how you think its stupid for me to keep pushing the rematch question, but oddly enough it keeps seeming like that's what you're saying. That Toney would have lost in a rematch...

P.S. which scorecard was Toney down on lol.
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lordofmay, Mar 2, 2015

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bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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lordofmay said: ↑

Hahahahahahaha please read that back to yourself along with all your other previous threads.

I'll ask again, who did Toney lose to with that style?

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Whats funny?
Where have i said Toney lost? You are losing it. I asked if some of the close decisions had of gone the other way, would Jones victory have been viewed as greatly and that when fighters struggle in several close fights that a style weakness can be capitalised on by elite fighters.
This seems like you trying to change it a bit, because you cant get out of your own tangles

Lol so Toney said in an interview that he thought he lost to Tiberi? Damn you're right, def wasn't just an off night, clearly a stylistic weakness.

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the fact you note another fight that you felt was the same style and we know he struggled in that one, highlights my point

Again your trying to say I proved your point about it being a weakness by saying Williams was a tough fight. Did you seriously forget your own previous statements? You said an elite fighter could use the Tiberi plan to expose Toney the same way. Charles Williams, a much better fighter than Tiberi, used this plan. He lost his fight with Toney by KO and would have lost on every scorecard had the fight not been stopped. Did I make it simple enough for you? So its a stylistic weakness due to an off night against Tiberi. The point I was making about a rematch is that unless you have an IQ of zero, obviously Toney beats Tiberi decisively.

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Once again you are wrong. Williams was ahead on one card, and either way winning a fight doesnt mean it wasnt a struggle and we both know it was.
I could go back and use the Froch senario again and say that Bute was a greater fighter than Groves, but Froch beat him easier and I could note froch struggled with Groves due to a style problem. It didnt stop Froch winning by KO, but the style problem was evident. Surely even a dummy like you can see that? Similar with Toney to a certain style

Again you realize that YOU ARE IN FACT trying to argue that a fight Toney won very clearly proves your point about a stylistic weakness. I can start pulling more examples if the Williams fight is too hard to understand. Iran Barkley had the same plan...

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I cant dispute the ending was clear and havent tried to. I said Toney struggled in a tough fight. Once again, this is you trying to alter what was written due to not being able to back up your earlier posts.
I wouldnt go there wth Barkley. He was beaten by a former LW and blasted out in a round by Benn

Also a sidenote, what about Williams being a former LHW?

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What about it? Possibly drained, who knows

Toney's previous fight he weighed 181 lbs
Williams previous fight he weighed 171 lbs.

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Whats that got to do with anything?
A MW that Golovkin beat is now fighting at HW. So what :huh.

Weight drain was a factor for Toney not Williams lol.

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Possibly? Could have been an issue for both. Who knows? Once again. You are trying to drift off about the fact it was a tough fight

Good example about Hopkins but it completely contradicts your point. He can beat quick fighters on a lower tier, but not elite level ones. Toney, who thinks he lost to Tiberi, beat multiple opponents who are much better than Tiberi but used the same approach. So in your mind it was clearly a style he just couldn't handle as opposed to an off night right?

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Doesnt contradict anything at all and could be looked at that Hopkins is possibly an overall higher level. Or could be viewed that Toney had greater problems with his style weakness

I love how you think its stupid for me to keep pushing the rematch question, but oddly enough it keeps seeming like that's what you're saying. That Toney would have lost in a rematch...

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A rematch that didnt happen and couldnt be sited? Hey you can argue with yourself on that one

P.S. which scorecard was Toney down on lol.
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Before he fought Jones?
He was behind on a card against Tiberi
He was behind on a card against Sosa
He was behind on a card against Johnson
He was behind on a card before the finish against Williams
He was behind on 3 cards against Nunn before the finish
There were some cards he was level on also
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bailey, Mar 3, 2015

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lordofmay Member Full Member

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bailey said: ↑

Whats funny?
Where have i said Toney lost? You are losing it. I asked if some of the close decisions had of gone the other way, would Jones victory have been viewed as greatly and that when fighters struggle in several close fights that a style weakness can be capitalised on by elite fighters.
This seems like you trying to change it a bit, because you cant get out of your own tangles

the fact you note another fight that you felt was the same style and we know he struggled in that one, highlights my point

Once again you are wrong. Williams was ahead on one card, and either way winning a fight doesnt mean it wasnt a struggle and we both know it was.
I could go back and use the Froch senario again and say that Bute was a greater fighter than Groves, but Froch beat him easier and I could note froch struggled with Groves due to a style problem. It didnt stop Froch winning by KO, but the style problem was evident. Surely even a dummy like you can see that? Similar with Toney to a certain style
I cant dispute the ending was clear and havent tried to. I said Toney struggled in a tough fight. Once again, this is you trying to alter what was written due to not being able to back up your earlier posts.
I wouldnt go there wth Barkley. He was beaten by a former LW and blasted out in a round by Benn

What about it? Possibly drained, who knows

Whats that got to do with anything?
A MW that Golovkin beat is now fighting at HW. So what :huh.

Possibly? Could have been an issue for both. Who knows? Once again. You are trying to drift off about the fact it was a tough fight
Doesnt contradict anything at all and could be looked at that Hopkins is possibly an overall higher level. Or could be viewed that Toney had greater problems with his style weakness
A rematch that didnt happen and couldnt be sited? Hey you can argue with yourself on that one

Before he fought Jones?
He was behind on a card against Tiberi
He was behind on a card against Sosa
He was behind on a card against Johnson
He was behind on a card before the finish against Williams
He was behind on 3 cards against Nunn before the finish
There were some cards he was level on also
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This just highlights what a troll you are. I was actually waiting for you to bring up the Nunn and Sosa fights, because it clearly proves again that you haven't watched any of these fights. If you hate Toney and I guess by extension Jones, fine. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't change the fact that they were great fighters.

So Toney wins every fight against that style, but its a stylistic weakness because of tough fights. Solid argument.

Toney won on every scorecard in the Williams fight BY AT LEAST TWO POINTS. Look it up, or watch the fight. Unless your suggesting he was down on points at some even earlier point in the fight? Again what a solid argument.

You still fail to highlight where exactly you are trying to go with whether Toney had lost close decisions or not would the Jones fight be viewed differently. Probably. So what the fvck is your point?

Also, what's the weight got to do with anything? What the fvck? You were the one who brought up weight.

Hopkins loses to Dawson, 2x to Taylor, Jones, and Calzaghe, but Toney has greater problems with the Tiberi pressure style? Seriously you should debate professionally.

I'll ask again what elite fighters capitalized on Toney's style weakness that was exposed by Dave Tiberi?

I'm sure it will take another 2 days for you to formulate a response so I'll be waiting.
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lordofmay, Mar 4, 2015

#567
bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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lordofmay said: ↑

This just highlights what a troll you are.

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How is you asking me to tell you which scorecard was Toney down on and me answering with 3 genuine cards he was behind on? Thats a fact. How is a fact trolling?

I was actually waiting for you to bring up the Nunn and Sosa fights, because it clearly proves again that you haven't watched any of these fights. If you hate Toney and I guess by extension Jones, fine. Unfortunately your opinion doesn't change the fact that they were great fighters.
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Not sure what you are even going on about here?

So Toney wins every fight against that style, but its a stylistic weakness because of tough fights. Solid argument.

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On paper yes he won those fights, but even Toney has noted that he lost one of them, so you have no point again.
I dont think you know what you are trying to debate.
Then just watch the Thadzi fight and he didnt get that decision.
You have been shown up. Certain fighters struggle with certain styles. Nothing wrong with that, but as noted top fighters who can adapt can often capitalise on that

Toney won on every scorecard in the Williams fight BY AT LEAST TWO POINTS. Look it up, or watch the fight. Unless your suggesting he was down on points at some even earlier point in the fight? Again what a solid argument.

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My mistake he was indeed, but that doesnt remove it was a tough fight and 2 points after 11 rounds highlights that, and the commentary noted it was anyones fight when going into the later rounds

You still fail to highlight where exactly you are trying to go with whether Toney had lost close decisions or not would the Jones fight be viewed differently. Probably. So what the fvck is your point?

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You half answered what you previously answered there.

Also, what's the weight got to do with anything? What the fvck? You were the one who brought up weight.

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Seems it meant something to you. I didnt mention what weights they were. You did

Hopkins loses to Dawson, 2x to Taylor, Jones, and Calzaghe, but Toney has greater problems with the Tiberi pressure style? Seriously you should debate professionally.

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Are you trying to say Toney didnt have problems in the Tiberi fight? Yes or no

I'll ask again what elite fighters capitalized on Toney's style weakness that was exposed by Dave Tiberi?

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I dont need to say elite. there was Thadzi

I'm sure it will take another 2 days for you to formulate a response so I'll be waiting
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The answers come as soon as I look at your posts
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bailey, Mar 4, 2015

#568
VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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How great an accomplishment was Roy winning a HW title?

VG_Addict, Mar 4, 2015

#569
bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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VG_Addict said: ↑

How great an accomplishment was Roy winning a HW title?
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You could make an interesting thread on the subject. Im sure there would be differing views

bailey, Mar 4, 2015

#570

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