Ali in the later stages of his career when many thought he was well passed it and no longer the best heavyweight in the world pulled out a shocking upset victory over the seemingly unstoppable young big George Foreman. This was one of the key fights to make Ali the greatest. I want to speculate on a different scenario. Instead of facing Foreman at that stage in his career imagine he had to take the title from a different big young undefeated champ Rid**** Bowe. Rid**** Bowe poses a much different challenge then Foreman though he didn't have the same brute force and strength Foreman did he was still a big strong boy with good power. Bowe in his prime was more well schooled then Foreman in a sense that he was sound both offensively and defensively to go along with fighting well on the inside and outside also stamina was never a problem for Bowe. Even though Bowe showed up not looking to be in great shape for a number of his fights he never really seemed to lack stamina especially in any of his big fights, he was always relaxed in the ring. This was young Foreman's flaw that Ali exploited he had a difficult time relaxing in the ring and was very tense this allowed Ali to have him exhausted by middle of the fight. I feel Bowe looked very good throughout his entire title reign and I believe he even could've got the nod against Evander in their second fight it was a very close good fight both guys were brilliant even though Bowe didn't look to be in top shape he fought 12 hard rounds like he was. There's the match up you take Ali from the time when he beat Foreman in the jungle and you pin him against Rid**** Bowe on top of his game as a young champion, What Happens?
uff,can't rule out ali never,but if he pulled out rope a dope against a prime rid**** bowe,uhh i think rid**** would have beat him badly...rid**** was heavier about 30 lbs,taller 2 inches,had a longer reach,better inside game,tough chin...he could give ali a beating with his inside fighting.those uppercuts were nasty...ali didn't have legs at this age.i like more pre exile ali vs bowe....
I realize styles make fights, BUT Foreman was a helluva lot better than Bowe, who had a very short prime 92-95, by 96 he was toast, Bowe Never went 15 rounds, and was often out of shape and just plain lazy.. The way Bowe struggled and went Thru hell and high water with Holyfield, doesn't speak well for his chances against Ali who had an iron chin and a much higher ring IQ than Bowe, Rid**** sure as hell isn't knocking him out, and sorry he ain't gonna outbox Ali over 15 long rounds.. Ali by comfortable 15 round UD.
Before Manilla, I'd go with Ali. Afterwards, I think Bowe decisions him or loses a bs controversial decision.
The Ali that beat Foreman would've beaten Bowe as well. The deciding factor would be hand speed. Big tall fighters never were a big problem for Ali since he could out speed them. Bowe wasn't as fast as Ali and would appear somewhat robotical against him. Holyfield beat Bowe the 2nd time by boxing and moving more. Does anyone really think Ali wouldn't do the same only better?
Ali wouldn't rope a dope Bowe he's just out box him. Bowe was very easy to hit, struggled with movement and had a very over rated jab. Watch Bowe against Biggs to get an idea of what Ali would do to him. Biggs jabbed him at will, was only a round behind on the scorecards and had wobbled Bowe twice. Bowe would have his moments of course but if Foreman couldn't put him away then Bowe wasn't going to, no matter how hard he tried and once it goes to the scorecards there can only by one winner Ali by clear decision.
Spot on. Bowe's shortcomings were fully on display against Biggs. The non-existent defense, inferior jab, slow feet etc. And this was a Bowe in top shaped and not the slob who turned up more often than not post Holyfield 1. Ali's hand speed in 74 was still top notch, he still had great movement (despite abandoning it against Foreman), certainly good enough to outspeed a comparative plodder like Bowe and his jab was way better and quicker than Bowes. Bowe didn't hit hard enough to stop Ali and didn't cut off the ring like George did to force Ali to fight off the ropes. I reckon Ali controls this easily.
Tyrell Biggs?? He barely won a single round against Bowe and looked like he about to go from the second round on , till he eventually did in the 8th. Bowe walked that guy down and out boxed him one sided. Some embarrassing revisionism gong on in here. A more apt comparison would be Donald who spent the entire fight dancing away from Bowe and ended up losing 12 to nothing. Donald was underrated and had superior movement. But Bowe was an excellent stalker with great movement himself. The Ali who lost every round to Foreman before he exploited his stamina issues would be just a target for Bowe to T off on round after round. And unlike Foreman , Bowe could keep it gong till the final bell. He had all the patience , composure and stamina to cruise to a wide UD.
You clearly don't remember Bowe/Biggs very well. Biggs wobbled Bowe at the end of the third, had him staggering into the ropes where Biggs pummeled him. The official scorecards had Biggs winning 3 of the 7 completed rounds on 2 judges scorecards and the other game him 2 rounds. Lewis walked Biggs down like you described, slipping jabs, cutting off the ring and walking through Biggs. Bowe struggled, badly with Biggs. Bowe had terrible movement. But because of his size his smaller opponents had to come to him. When guys boxed and move against him he struggled badly such as Golota, Holyfield in the rematch, Hide, Tubbs and Biggs.
Ali-Foreman was a one-off type fight fought in the heat of Zaire. George was used to winning quickly, thought he would ko Ali in the early rounds (that was his best chance) and fought a stupid type of fight for a 15 round bout in those circumstances, expending his energy at a fast pace and coming forward throwing punches with abandon, with Ali fighting mostly off the ropes counterpunching. He didn't dance much in this fight. A smarter fighter than young George conserves his energy much better though it's hard to see him beating Ali over a 15 rounds duration. Ali beat him through experience, psychology and because of his durability. No one ko'd Ali cleanly. This was George's gamble. He lost. George was smarter when he made the comeback. Bowe needs to be patient, box behind his jab and look to win a decision. He was a taller, rangier boxer and better over a longer distance with better stamina than George. Bowe had good power too so Ali has to move more than he did against George and that's harder to do as you get older. Prime Bowe has a decent chance to beat 1974 32 years of age Ali over the course of the fight, even though in a 15 rounder Ali might still edge it. Those 13-15 late rounds can make the difference. Of course, Ali overall is a much greater fighter. Bowe's prime didn't last too long.
Tony Tubbs gave a young Bowe a very tough fight .. Ali almost matched him in reach .. I like Ali by decision, too fast, too smart, too well conditioned, too good a chin ..
Thanks for the great responses so far There is many interesting points being made. First off some people have mentioned Bowe being out of shape and lacking stamina. I feel the being out of shape part is greatly over exaggerated especially while he was champ. Sure he showed up a lot heavier for his fight with Holyfield but that doesn't change the fact that he was able to keep up a very intense workrate through 12 rounds of furious action, there was a lengthy break in the middle of the fight but that might not help you as much as one may think. If you have experience boxing you may have noticed in sparring that when you spar a few rounds then sit out a few rounds you often get tired faster when you come back in and its extremely hard to get you're rhythm back. Personally I feel I'd find it just as hard or more difficult to keep fighting at a high pace for 12 rounds with a lengthy break in between how they both did it was astonishing. As a matter a fact in the fight Bowe actually came on in the final round and really put a stern beating on Holyfield which looked like it may have saved his title (wasn't the case though). I feel while Bowe was champion he still prepared properly for his fights. The opposition wasn't great in his first two defensive facing Ferguson and a very faded Dokes but the way he blew away both of them was very impressive and what a great champ should do. I feel the reason for his high weight in the Holyfield fight wasn't for lack of training and him being out of shape I think it had more to do with him blowing up way too much between fights and also likely eating a heavier diet overall. Non the less I don't think he looked bad at all in the 2nd Holyfield fight on the contrary I thought him and Holyfield both looked very good. It amazes me how its gone down in history that Bowe cheated himself by showing up completely ill prepared for that fight when the fight was against an ATG at the peak of his career, in arguably his best performance and it went right down to the wire and was a great fight.... With the reference to the Tyrell Biggs and Tony Tubbs fight it a very valid point but personally I feel Bowe at the time of those fights hadn't fully developed into the fighter he was while being champ. I feel those fights were great help in getting him to that stage. As far as the match up goes Bowe vs Ali.... Its hard one for me to picture. Someone mentioned that Ali's big win over Foreman can't only be attributed to a great performance by Ali but also a bad performance by Foreman due to the circumstances of the fight and personally I do feel this is true without taking anything away from Ali (he is truly the greatest if you ask me). I feel Foreman wasn't in a good mind frame overall at the time fought and bad fight but some of that can be attributed to Ali's mind games. Regardless big part of the game of boxing is to overcome and Ali proved to be the better man on that night because Foreman didn't perform well and couldn't overcome the obstacles he dealt with on that night and Ali did. Regardless Bowe presents a completely different stylistic match up. I feel Bowe would be able to land his jab and push Ali back with his jab, he'd have difficulty landing his right clean but I feel like Foreman he'd have Ali against the ropes a number of times and dig to the body. Like in the Foreman fight I'd expect Ali to jab and throw and land plenty of fast combinations both in ring centre and while against the ropes.I'd also expect Ali to use similar holding tactics on Bowe but Bowe would be more effective at landing short punches when Ali does this and wouldn't wear himself out. I think Ali would dance as much as he could and have some good rounds on the outside. I think Bowe would only be able to be effective with his jab when Ali dances but I don't think Ali would be able to dance for more then a few rounds spread out through the fight. Unlike Foreman I wouldn't expect Bowe to tire as a matter a fact I feel Ali would likely be the more tired of the two and in a number of rounds would rest against the ropes, clown, defend, hold and flurry at times while Bowe hammers away at his body and tries to land to Ali's head. I don't see either fighter going down I think the fight would provide good action for 15 rounds with many of the rounds looking different from each other. In the end I see it being a close fight it would not shock me to see Bowe regain his title and get the biggest win of his career by a point or two or maybe even more likely a split. I could also see the tables turned and Ali be the one winning a close decision maybe even a controversial decision. I think it would be a very good fight on the boarder of being great and I'd expect the momentum to change throughout. Overall if I had to bet on a winner I gotta go with Ali I think like in his fight with Shavers Ali would be able to steal a few extra rounds gaining him the nod some people may question it on first look but upon review scoring the bout round by round most will Ali won by a couple points. :deal