Not a Bad Argument Pro-Dempsey ..

I personally think many fighters get blamed by the actions of their managers and promoters, who often have more influence than the fighter on who their opponents are. At least they have enough influence that blame of non fights, usually doesn't rest entirely with a fighter.

 

I agree with the fight film collector's assessment.

 

Will the K man say Greb deserved a title shot too?

As heavyweight Champion Dempsey could have fought Wills in many areas of the world. Based on styles and how they match up I think Dempsey robbed himself of a signature win.

 

It's not difficult to find contemporary articles saying that Greb deserved a shot.

 

Little known fact: The State of New York was the only State in the only Country that hosted championship bouts.

The more you know.

 

My take on that article

1--Wills' height. The old Ring Record Book listed him as 6' 4" and was compiled by guys who knew Harry well. Off photos, film, and what I would judge off his given weights and physique the 6' 4" height seems more likely. He was 217 for Firpo and if he was shorter than the 6' 3" Firpo, it is hard to see how his slimmer build would come within 7 lbs. of Firpo. This is important only in that the writer makes much of Wills not being much bigger than the 6' 1" Dempsey. I think he most likely was about 3 inches taller and about 20 lbs. heavier, for what that matters.

2--Wills not being interested in fighting other contenders--something to this in 1925 and 1926, but Time Magazine had this quote from Tex Rickard in the 4-7-1924 issue--

"Wills agrees to fight any heavyweight I select, leading up to a meeting with Dempsey."

That doesn't sound like ducking to me. Firpo was selected, and Wills won every round, but of course Dempsey was still beyond reach. I don't know if Rickard used the ND rule as his escape clause.

3--These films were from 1924, when Wills was 35. The only film we have of Dempsey at that age (he was actually 36 in Feb, 1932) is an awful performance against King Levinsky. It might be a bit unfair to judge what the Wills of 1920 to 1922 might have been like off those films.

4--I agree with the bottom line that the politics of the time being what it was, a fight between Dempsey and Wills, at least in the USA or the British Empire, was not likely to come off, and much of the maneuvering about one was probably cynical. Staging the fight in a third world country would be another question.

 

Hmmm good article HG, the KD was clearly on a break. I have always heard great things about Dempsey from the old-timers when I was younger and I was told the man had no fear. I think Dempsey had the style to beat Wills but it would have been interesting and could never be sure if Wills would rise to the occasion.

Shame the fight never happened but Dempsey gets blamed too much while this article spells out some of the problems of the time. I think the inactivity hurt JD the most but we live and we learn.

Dempsey's legacy should not be penalized for this fight not happening anymore than Harry's

I lift JD back up to the # 4 ATG Heavyweight....I have always felt he was a Big Duran

 

some good points, hard to see much of a size difference between Firpo and Wills but Firpo does not look so much taller than JD either
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NN0vGHnCLo

 

The article brings nothing new to the discussion. We are still left with a highly contrived, borderline fraudulent, residency upon the championship throne. Between obvious ducking of two of the best challengers, inactivity and the selection of poor challengers, Dempsey's championship legacy is certainly one of the most tainted to the objective eye.

 

I think you are overstating the case.

Dempsey was not the first champion who missed his strongest potential challenger, and he wasn't the last.

Even if we give a pass to guys where the overlap was minimal like Jeffries, most of the top heavyweights of the 90s never fought when it mattered, and the Klitschko brothers never fought each other.

There seems to be a golden era between the 50s and the 70s, where the top fights get made somehow, and things are a bit squiffy outside that!

 

All were busy, tho. Lewis was going between 3 and 6 months between fights as champ up until his final fight. Wlad has been on the same schedule if not quicker. Both these guys and Holy filled their dance cards with significant challengers, no great need for a Rickard type hype machine to justify the likes of Carpentier or Firpo as significant challengers to the title.

 

Lets say that Dempsey had done the same without fighting Willard or Greb.

What names would we see in there?

 

How would he have the title without Willard?

 

I meant to say Wills.

Oh the joy of spellcheckers/predictive text!