Currently, Kovalev is already in or around the top 50 Light-Heavyweights all time

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Mar 14, 2015.


  1. larryx2012

    larryx2012 I AM BETTER THEN YOU Full Member

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    Hopkins resume is 100 times better then Kovalevs at 175 ..are you serious?
     
  2. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know if I'd go that far, but I tend to agree with you. People will downplay Winky and Pavlik, and people will point out the losses to Calzaghe and Dawson, the "draw" with Pascal, and the fact that Shumenov and Cloud aren't world beaters. But looking at the bigger picture, I think Hopkins clearly has the better resume, too. Notwithstanding the head-to-head master class by Kovalev against Hopkins 2 months shy of 50.

    I think Kovalev deserves tremendous credit, especially that I believed Hopkins would actually beat Kovalev. But at the same time, does Clay get much credit for beating The Ol' Mongoose?

    :smoke
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Sure, but getting beaten 12-0 when they fought is a great equaliser.

    Plus, Kovalev has the single best win out of the two of them.
     
  4. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't know about that. Hopkins was a huge under dog against Tarver, moving up 2 divisions, after losing consecutive fights at middleweight, as a perceived old man. Kovalev did beat the legend in Hopkins, but he was clearly the favorite going into that one. Ergo, the magnitude of Hopkins' win over Tarver far outshines Kovalev's win over Hopkins. You could maybe make a similar case for Hopkins with Pascal, as well, although that one is far less obvious and maybe more of a stretch.

    But, no doubt in my mind whatsoever....

    Hopkins UD Tarver > Kovalev UD Hopkins
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    For this to be true, Tarver has to be favourite against the Hopkins that Kovalev beat. Otherwise, he is not a better light-heavyweight.

    Clearly, that is not true.
     
  6. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not following your logic here at all.

    The fact remains, Tarver was expected to beat Hopkins, and was dominated. Kovalev was expected to beat Hopkins, and won in impressively dominant fashion, with a different type of fight than most expected, but he was still favored.

    What does the Hopkins who fought Kovalev vs Tarver have to do with anything?

    Kovalev is also a natural 175 pounder, but at the time Hopkins beat Tarver (the relevant time in question), Hopkins was a middleweight jumping 2 divisions at the perceived ancient age of 40.

    It's a no brainer for me.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well you want to obtain "value" by denoting the relative status of Tarver to Hopkins and Hopkins to Kovalev.

    I don't. What I want to know is, who beat a better fighter.

    Kovalev beat a better fighter. Thereby, Kovalev has the better win.

    Note also that Hopkins has lost to Dawson. Two losses and one ND in eight years to go with those wins and the draw.
     
  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Hopkins when he fought Kovalev isn't better than Tarver when he fought Hopkins, I don't think. If at all, not by enough of a margin to be making it a deciding factor.
     
  9. Capt

    Capt Boxing Addict Full Member

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    That's like saying when Trevor Berbick beating Ali at age 39, it still was a great win.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    So you think that Tarver would beat that Hopkins? Or that Hopkins has a significant style advantage?

    Because I had that fight 12-zip too.
     
  11. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I suppose that's one way of looking at it, but with all due respect I'm not really buying it.

    That's fair play, and I eluded to that earlier as pertaining to your original post, but the topic of discussion evolved into a better win - and on your own logic, I think that weakens your case that Kovalev beat the better fighter. He beat a guy who had already lost to Dawson and Calzaghe, and also drew with Pascal.

    Tarver, on the other hand, was on top of the world having bested Roy 2 of 3, notwithstanding his split with Johnson.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It is absolutely nothing like saying that.

    Ali was unranked and ill.

    Hopkins was ranked #1, and proven world class.
     
  13. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Me neither, and I honestly don't view it as even being particularly close.
     
  14. Capt

    Capt Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Fair enough, but Hopkins was 49 and most picked Kovalev to win.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    To be frank, there's not other way to look at it that makes sense.

    Your way of looking at it intrinsically favours the underdog - it has a built in bias towards fighters who are not expected to win. The way I'm appraising the fights allows the learned reality after the event to play its part.




    Right - but still a fighter that beat a depleted Tarver at a minimum 10-2.

    I'd rank him above both of them in the greatness stakes for sure. But Hopkins is obviously a better fighter.