Ray Leonard Doesn't Retire From 1982-87 and Fights...

Wow!!...Great thread..What I would pay to see a SRL Vs Curry fight or that 3rd fight with Roberto. I believe Mccallum wanted Leonard but for reasons unknown Ray didnt want no part of it, all I know is that for a good part of those years Ray was havin problems with his eyes but if thats true I never understood why he took that second fight with Hearns or the fight with Haglar for that matter with a risk of goin blind. But make no mistake Leonard would have had his hands full with Curry, McCallum and Nunn, maybe even loses to Donald.

 

He would be left a broken man with a lesser reputation.Eventually resulting in humiliating losses to Norris and Camacho +cocaine addiction.

 

I agree with that..Ray was faster than all these guys in my opinion but another fight with Duran and McCallum and a possible shot at Curry would have been alot of wear and tear on Rays part..

 

:happy

 

Curry would get kayoed in five rounds. Hwang put him down hard in that 7th round of their fight.Leonard would do it two rounds earlier.

 

Leonard beats Duran a second time. Same goes for Curry. A second Hearns bout and one with McCallum prove problematical. 50/50 ones. By the time he gets to Kalambay and Nunn he's getting a bit shopworn and more than likely loses.

 

Good thread.

You might have to switch up some of your fighters, though.

Leonard was actually in training to fight Roger Stafford in May 1982 when he suffered the detached retina. Aaron Pryor, who was driving to the fight because he and Leonard were in talks to meet later that year, heard about Leonard's injury and then he eventually agreed to defend against Alexis Arguello.

So, had he not been injured, Leonard would've faced Roger Stafford in May and then he'd have either moved up to fight Hagler at the end of 1982 or defended his World Welterweight title against Aaron Pryor.

My pick is he would've faced Pryor. Hagler was two divisions above him at that time. Too big of a move.

So Leonard spends 1982 fighting Finch, Stafford and Pryor.

Assuming he beats Pryor (I think he would've but it would've been highly entertaining), then you start 1983 with Leonard still the Welterweight champ.

Sitting in his division (and ranked near the top) are a very green Donald Curry, an over-hyped "Hearns-wannabe" Milton McCrory, Colin Jones and Nino LaRocca.

I think Leonard might've made one more defense, probably against LaRocca (because his 47-0 record was the gaudiest), and then he moves up to Junior Middleweight.

The WBC champ was Hearns, who had decisioned Benitez in December 1982. So, in the summer of 1983, I think we see Leonard-Hearns II for the WBC Junior Middleweight/Super Welter Title.

Or, instead of defending against LaRocca, Leonard could've challenged Davey Moore for the belt. That way, had he won, he and Hearns could've faced off as co-champs - instead of Leonard challenging Hearns.

Just for fun, though, lets say Leonard fights Hearns - because Moore was so green - and Leonard beats Hearns.

If Duran, like he actually did, had faced Davey Moore in this scenario and won in the summer of 1983, Duran and Leonard (had he beaten Hearns in the rematch) would've been the WBA and WBC champs.

If Leonard, Hearns and Duran were all in the title picture in 1983 at junior middle (Benitez had already begun his slide) ... maybe Marvin Hagler "moves down" to face them?

The three of them (Leonard-Hearns-Duran) certainly wouldn't have been in any rush to move up to middleweight. There were a series of super fights there for them.

Maybe Leonard fights Hearns in 1983 and then makes an optional defense in a build-up to a third Duran fight in 1984?

It's an interesting thought. Although, I think Duran's top contender would've been McCallum. So there's a question as to whether both Leonard and Duran have a tuneup before their unification (if they chose to do that). Duran would've had difficulty beating McCallum.

In early 1984, Leonard would've been looking at the 154-pound contenders at the time - McCallum, John Mugabi, James "Hard Rock" Green, even a fading Benitez.

Let's say Leonard makes an optional defense (say Mugabi - he was colorful and 21-0) in 1984 and then defeats Duran to become the undisputed champ at that weight.

At the end of 1984/early 1985, he'd be left with the option of fighting Hearns a third time. Or Leonard could've looked at fighting someone like McCallum or Curry (if he won the vacant welterweight title Leonard relinquished) at 154 ... with an eye toward fighting Hagler for the World Middleweight Title in the fall of 1985.

Anyway, in answer to your question, my list would look like this:

1982 - Leonard vs Finch - World Welterweight Title
1982 - Leonard vs Stafford - World Welterweight Title
1982 - Leonard vs. Pryor - World Welterweight Title
1983 - Leonard vs. LaRocca - World Welterweight Title
1983 - Leonard vs. Hearns II - WBC Super Welterweight Title
1984 - Leonard vs. Mugabi - WBC Super Welterweight Title
1984 - Leonard vs. Duran III - World Super Welterweight Title
1985 - Leonard vs. Curry - World Super Welterweight Title
1985 - Leonard vs. Hagler - World Middleweight Title

 

He would certainly ad a few more meaningful scalps to his resume, admonishing the criticisms about him "avoiding" elite fighters. But he'd also likely pick up a loss here and there too. Donald Curry would have been a dangerous proposition anytime between 1984-1986. Especially considering Ray would have massive difficulty making the welter limit by that point.

 

I highly doubt Ray Leonard would've remained at welterweight from 1984 to 1986.

Are you going to fight Hearns and Duran for $10/15 million, or the likes of Milton McCrory and Donald Curry on regular HBO?

I just don't see Leonard remaining there. He signed to fight Pryor (according to Aaron he'd just signed the contract to fight Leonard when Ray detached his retina) in 1982 ... which was probably the last "superfight" at welterweight for Leonard.

If it's a great fight - which it very well could've been - Leonard and Pryor may have fought more than once.

But Leonard wouldn't have stuck around much longer than that.

He'd already tested the waters at 154 (against Kalule) in 1981 and won a title by knockout. If Hearns, Benitez and Duran were all at 154 with belts (all guys he'd already beaten), I don't see him sticking around 147 fighting young, unproven pups for four years.

If he fought Curry, it would've been after Curry had won a welterweight title and Leonard was a champ at a higher weight ... and he'd have made Curry come up to meet him. And I don't give Curry much of a shot against Leonard at 147 but certainly not at 154.

As for losses, I don't know if anyone beats him until he moves up to fight Hagler. Hearns didn't learn to clinch until much later in his career - against Kinchen, I believe. If he'd fought Ray in 1983 or 1984, Hearns would've been in danger of stopped sooner than he was in 1981.

But I think Hagler beats Leonard if they'd fought in 1985 or so.

It's all a guess, though. Who knows. I just don't see Curry, Starling or McCrory getting anywhere with Leonard. At the time Leonard signed to fight Stafford, Roger Stafford was considered on the same level as Curry and McCrory. After Ray blew out Stafford (which he would've), I don't think he even bothers with the others.

 

That was kind of my point. If those two were to meet at that time frame it likely would have been at some agreed upon catch weight.

Definitely the former over the latter. But Curry was one of the names thrown around in the thread and given how hot he was for even a brief period a meeting between the two of them wouldn't have been out of the question.

I'd personally pick Leonard to kick his ass. And Ray rarely rematched anyone whom he already defeated with the exception of Hearns and Duran. And those weren't until many years after the first bouts and for far greater sums of money than anything a series with Pryor would have generated.

Naturally. Curry might have been the one fight which would prompt him to drop back down if the money was right, but as mentioned before its doubtful that they would have met at welter.

At 154 no.. At welter and circa 1986? different story.

Possibly. But it also depends on the timing of certain bouts, what weight they were made at and how well Leonard's body holds out to long term wear and tear. Remember he never had that many fights.

A reasonable prediction.. I would give that about 50/50 odds.

That 1980's welterweight class was jammed packed with talent though.. You had Starling, Curry, Honeyghan, Breland, Brown, etc.. Maybe not men who were Ray's caliber and who knows if any of those fights would have been made. But they certainly wouldn't have been considered cherry picks at least not by me.

 

Ray already had these same opportunities which few understand. his condition didn't keep him out of the sport, HE kept himself out of the sport becuz he was already cleared to fight in 1982

if any more proof is needed, he was already active in 1987-88-89-91. In those years, Nunn was champion and Ray had every chance to fight him while active, but didnt

He wasnt going to take the fight with Pryor; he already backed down from him in a post conference interview

He wouldnt have taken the fight with Hagler

Curry, I'm not sure about. But since young Curry represented a major threat by 1985, similar to Nunn, I would say Ray skips over him also

 

Yeah, Leonard backed down from Pryor. :huh

When Leonard was preparing for the Stafford fight, the contracts had already been negotiated for the upcoming Leonard-Pryor fight ... that's according to Pryor.

http://www.nytimes.com/1982/11/14/sports/sports-of-the-times-will-pryor-tempt-sugar-ray.html

It was a go ... then Leonard got injured in training and retired. Repairing detached retinas was not as common then as it became later.

Leonard feared going blind. Earnie Shavers got a detached retina, had the surgery and returned after he was cleared, and now his one bad eye IS blind and it's going one way while his other eye focuses on you.

It was a reasonable concern.

 

It was a good class - but it was good because they were all fairly evenly matched. I think Leonard was a level above them.

It's like when Roy Jones was a light heavy champ. All the guys he was fighting were good and all about the same level, and they put on good fights when they were fighting each other, but people on the internet started a "ROYCOTT" when he fought Julio Gonzales because they were sick of him fighting "overmatched" guys. (Even though Gonzales ended up beating Michaelczewski and becoming a champ himself.)

I kind of see that 80s class the same way. A lot of those names didn't emerge until the middle or the end of the decade. I think Leonard would've been on to "bigger" things by that point. But, if he had stuck around and fought them, people would've complained he wasn't fighting the "names" like Hagler and avoiding a rematch with Hearns ... and all that ... because he chose to feast on the Milton McCrorys of the world.

Leonard had his share of easy defenses, but he was always looking ahead to the next "superfight." He wouldn't have stuck around for Marlon Starling.

Also, those guys became champ after he left. If Leonard had stuck around, I don't know if any of them would've. And we'd be talking about the ****py no-names he fought at welterweight instead of moving on.