Michael Moorer vs Sergey Kovalev

And losing to that Pascal guy.

Fonfara was regarded as top 10, butnot a leading contender like Cleverly, Hopkins, or Pascal. I don't think anybody seriously rated that last guy, and he was just awful.

Well, he's no KO artist. But he did hurt everyone he fought.

Even if you want to argue that clearly standing on a guy's foot and knocking him off balance is a legit knockdown, it's irrelevant as far as proving vulnerability.

At least he fought Hopkins. And Kov was already seen as the leading LHW contender after Cleverly, it just cemented his claim further.

And Hopkins would have likely beat the version of Dawson that Stevenson faced. When the guy's long time trainer comes out weeks before the fight, saying he's not training seriously and you had to walk away cause he was for all intents and purposes done.

 

Pascal took unnecessary shots from Krusher because he has abysmal stamina and movement. So bad he fought in single shot spurts.

Moorer was in a different league to Pascal. Its not right to turn a blind eye to what he did at Heavy Weight.
He beat Holyfield and had success against Foreman because of his talent , not because he put on weight. Foreman wasn't meant to beat Moorer and he done well against a puncher far beyond Kovalev.

Could Kovalev go up and win a title in todays weak HW era? Could he even have any success at Cruiser?
Unknown , but what is known is that Pascal was able to find Kovalev when he opened up and Moorer didn't need large gaps of in-activity , he could stick and move , hit and move throught out the fight.

You would have to go with Moorer as he accomplished more. Sergy Krushing Superman makes it more even , but not until that happens.

 

And coming back to beat that guy Hopkins who beat that guy Pascal.

It was a stay busy fight. And Hopkins was finished. Stevnson's wins over Dawson and Coud were comparable to Pascal and Cleverly. BTW, Tony Bellew has had a pretty good run since losing to Adonis.

Fair enough.

Kovalev himself said he had no recollection of having his foot stepped on. It wasn't easy to see in the film. In either case it was a good shot and the ref made the call.

Adonis was the ring's champion for 2014. It wasn't until just a few months ago that Kovalev surpassed him. And most people didn't favor B-hop at that point to beat either Kovalev OR Stevenson. Maybe you still would.. I wouldn't.

Shoulda, woulda, coulda.. Fact is Hopkins DID fight Dawson and lost.. Dawson's poor form is no more Stevenson's problem than it was Kovalev's for Hopkins being 50 years of age. And frankly while there were other men who I would now in hindsight pick to beat Dawson on that night, I doubt many could have done it in that fashion...

Point being, I think Stevenson's resume is on par with Kovalev's or at least for the moment.. If Sergiei continues to wipe contenders off the map while Stevenson sits idol then my perception will change a year from now.. Both have stayed busy. Both have had some emphatic performances and both have done their part in beating the best men out there. All there is left to do is face each other.. Weather it happens, who knows?. If they were to fight tomorrow I'd give Kovalev a 60-40 chance of winning. I think we can agree on most of the above.

 

Don't tell me the difference in my own feelings you c umstain.

 

Doesn't matter, Kov actually fought and beat them both.

And he's having another stay busy against Bika, as Kov is the one having to clean house.

No. Cloud is comparable to Campillo, given Campillo deserved the nod against him. Bellew was and is Stevenson's best win.

He may not have recollection, but we have the film and it is easy to see. There is a slow motion replay.

Because he beat Dawson. Before that Stevenson was RING #9, Kov was RING #3 and the far more proven contender with the win over Campillo.

Hopkins was given a very good chance at beating Kov.

I will agree that Stevenson has been busy, but only as the Gus Lesnivch to Kov's Charles. One guy is cleaning the house, the other has been milking a win over a vulnerable Champion for two years. Not fighting Hopkins or Pascal, while Kov takes out both back to back... :nono

 

It does matter. You can't credit Kovalev for beating one man while ignoring that Stevenson beat the man who beat that man. I'll give you Pascal but only because he was the only thing outside of stevenson who was worth anything that's available. Hardly what I'd call a stellar win.

If you're going to persist on ****ing all over Stevenson's opposition, then you might note that of Sergei's last five opponents, four of them consist of Cedric Agnew, Blake Caprillo, Ismayl Sillah and a man who was a decade past 40. The fifth was a former middleweight previously beaten by said 50 year old, has stopped no one of note at lightheavy and hasn't beaten too many people worth anything as of late. Sorry but this isn't a standout resume which drastically sets him apart from stevenson.

In my first post about it I addressed the foot thing.

Hopkins was riding on name alone when he entered that ring. I feared for his health from the opening bell. Regardless of who acheived the higher rating first, Stevenson got his chance and he made the best of it and is fighting comparable opposition to Kovalev and at comparable frequency. How long that lasts depends on what the two of them do in the next year.

Sorry but I don't call fighting Cedric Agnew, Ismayl Shillah and an ancient Hopkins as being anymore like cleaning house as Stevenson fighting Dawson, Bellew, Cloud, and Fonfara. If you want to say that one is marginally better than the other then fine.. I am calling them "comparable' which is basically saying the same thing.. If you're going to place their recent accomplishments as being "leagues" apart, then we're going to have to agree to disagree, but that's where my compromise ends.

 

But Kove beat that man who beat that man who beat that man. :thumbsup

Huh? Pascal and Hopkins are two of his last 5 opponents.

And he fought 4 times in 2013, two of those men were top 5 guys.

No, he beat 3 contenders and unified two titles. This wasn't Tyson/Holmes, even if Hopkins was 50.

 

Dawson lost to Pascal, Pascal then lost Hopkins. Hopkins lost Dawson.. Dawson lost to Stevenson.. It should be pretty evident that all these guys were in the mix and comparable in status which is why I don't rate Stevenson's or Kovalev's resume significantly over the other. Incidentally I actually DO rate Kovalev higher, but only marginally.. With the way you're making this sound it reads as though we're sizing up Quick Tillis to Muhammad Ali.

Yes Hopkins was the 50 year old I referenced and I alluded to Pascal but you deleted that part. The other three were Agnew, Caparillo and Shillah or whatever his name was.

What a coincidence !!! So did Stevenson and I believe two of his wins were as well!!!!! :happy

He was 50 years old, had fought once in the past 13 months winning a decision over an obscure WBA title holder who had 14 fights. It was a big win for Kovalev as Hopkins still had great standing in boxing. But sometimes the name belies the quality of the opponent as you well know ( and have alluded too frequently. )

 

@ debating whether Kovalev's knockdown against Caparello was legit or not. As if the actual film doesn't make it clear and obvious enough.

 

It was more of a side note than a serious debate but we both acknowledge that Kovalev's foot was stepped on.

 

:rofl:rofl

Jesus Christ.

 

My ****ogy of choice would be Ezzard Charles to Gus Lesnivch. Lot of Gus's these days, sitting on their lineage claim.

That's a solid list for a 15 month stretch. And going back one more fight, you can include Cleverly.

Alot has happened since 2013.

Hopkins still brought more than a name. He had 3 wins over contenders, two titles, and was still regarded as a top guy in the divison.

 

Kovalev's performance against Hopkins wasn't really that impressive tbh.

ideally for a fighter who is perceived to be a potential great-and in their prime-they should be destroying fighters of the level of a 50 year old limited spoiling Hopkins.

Put that Hopkins in with someone like Saad and it would have been horrific to behold and a sure knockout.I've seen nothing from Sergei to suggest he hits harder than someone like Saad btw(ie an excellent puncher) who would have gone through Kov's comp in similar fashion, yet some people are acting like he's a souped up Foster\Zamora\Jackson like monster.i don't see that level of power personally.

 

I agree that when you have two of the undisputed best fighters in the same division not facing each other its bad for any era. And Stevenson bares the brunt of the fault here.

A very active streak and one filled with a lot of sharp performances. The comp level doesn't impress me much as I have it on par with Stevenson's or perhaps just marginally better.. Cleverly was a good win, but Stevenson also destroyed Bellew who went an even 1 for 1 with Cleverly so again it balances out.

The biggest of which is Kovalev beating a 50 year old Hopkins.

And he was legitimately still top 5. But a fraction of what he used to be and among an otherwise weak bunch aside from Kovalev and Stevenson who clearly were above him.

 

Not convinced your opinion would be the same if:

A) Kovalev was 25-30 years younger.
B) Kovalev was a foot and five stone smaller.
C) Kovalev's name sounded like an option from a takeaway menu.