Why doesn't Lennox have universal approval ?

This Ruddock-Lewis thing proves Tyson fought a better Ruddock.
I don't know prove Ruddock's punching resistane problem after
Tyson. But i can imagine.
Tyson could break bones(nose,jaw,skull) by his punches and i think
Lewis could rip skin by his best punches this is the difference.

 

Actually, if it proves anything it's that Tyson couldn't do anywhere close to the same damage Lewis managed to do in a fraction of the time.

All told Tyson fought him for about 54 minutes, and Lewis fought him for about 4, maybe 5 minutes and in that 5 minutes he did enough to have the fight stopped so that Ruddock wouldn't be permanently injured. Ruddock was so far out of his league that no rematch was required. Meanwhile it Tyson went life or death against him. But I will say this, to me at least this was probably Tyson's best fight, because Ruddock at least showed up, and that's more than I can say about Spinks, who was wanting to take a dive before the fight even started.

As for Holyfield, if Tyson could break jaws and skulls so easily then why was he biting Holyfield instead of caving his head in?

 

Yeah, Tyson failed in his rematch with Holyfield. I think we can all agree that Lewis was not as mentally weak as Tyson.

Having said that, failing against Holyfield isn't the same as failing against a guy who nobody regarded highly in the first place. That's why I'd say Tyson's loss to Douglas is the most comparable to Lewis' losses to McCall and Rahman.

 

I'm not sure what tier they were, thanks for the correction.


But I do know that getting KOed by an all-time great like Ali or Foreman is not the same as getting KOed by the immortal McCall and Rahman.

 

Fair enough, although I do think in heavyweight boxing anyone who gets hit cleanly can go down. Personally I thought Douglas fought an extremely good fight and he hit Tyson with punches that would have KO'd most fighters far quicker. And if nothing else, I thought Tyson showed a hell of a chin, and yes, a lot of heart.

 

Can't argue with that, but without insulting Ali, I suspect McCall and Rahman have significantly more one punch power than he did, unless you think that so called anchor punch he hit Liston with was legit. Foreman dropped both from exhaustion and an accumulation of punches thrown, it wasn't a one punch KO by any means. But Lyle almost knocked him out with one punch. He knocked him down twice. So is Lyle better than Rahman in the punching department? I don't know.

 

Liston and young Foreman did not have the will, heart, and mental toughness of some of the other all-time greats. I don't have a problem with ranking Lewis above them, considering how they unraveled against Ali and Young. (However, factoring in Foreman's comeback leaves some room to reassess him in a more positive light).

Having said that, one could argue that while Lewis would not have crumbled like Liston or Foreman did, Liston or Foreman would not have gotten KOed by guys who were clearly below their level (I know you pointed to Lyle almost KOing Foreman ... it just goes to show how problematic i can be to speculate on what would or wouldn't have happned). And the point stands that trying to beat Ali in a rematch is a far more formidable task than beating McCall or Rahman in a rematch.


In summary, despite the apples and oranges comparison in terms of avenging losses, I won't argue if someone ranks Lewis above Liston and young Foreman.


On the other hand, trying to compare Lewis favorably to Frazier by pointing to Frazier's inability to defeat Foreman in a rematch is just something I can't agree with. Frazier got KOed by an all-time great. I know there are some people here who think Frazier would have lost to any non-featherfisted HW, but the fact is he never lost to a guy clearly below his level. If he had to avenge a loss to a guy below his level, he would have been just as successful as Lewis (and I don't think he would have lost to that kind of guy in the first place).

 

I don't know only one case when Lewis could break bone.
I think the ripped skin was the biggest damage by Lewis.
No Tyson couldn't break bones easily.
Just he broke Ferguson's,Nelson's,Boyd's,Scaff's nose
Golota's skull,Ruddock's jaw.

Yes Tyson showed zero power against Ruddock.Just he knocked down
Ruddock 4times and broke his jaw.
Maybe Tyson broke Ruddock's jaw in the 4th round on the rematch.
Yes Tyson showed zero power just destroyed Ruddock's face
on the rematch.And Ruddock went to the hospital after the rematch
because Tyson was featherfisted like Lewis.

And Golota went to the hospital after 2 rounds because Tyson
had zero power.When was Golota's first fight after the Tyson fight?
Why ? Because Tyson was weak as hell.





Just saying the prime Lewis couldn't knock the aging Holyfield
out . Maybe he had 24 full rounds for this.The fat out of shape
James Toney knocked Evander out.
Otherwise Lewis couldn't knock out the followings:
Billups,Ocasio,Epps,Tucker,Holyfield(2times),Mavrovic,
Akinwande,Mercer,Tua.
First time McCall and Rahman destroyed him.
Klitschko ko was a lucky cut.
McCall ko mental problem
Mason a lame ko by injury (It's nothing to do with Lewis' power )
I think the Chanet ko was a cut ko.
Where was Lewis' power ? What a powerful puncher !

By a Botha opinion Tyson was harder puncher than Lewis.
And lewis knocked Botha out sooner than Tyson.The early ko
proves nothing.

 

Yes, anyone can go down.


When it comes to assessing legacies, one thing that must be decided is this: is it worse to get KOed by one good shot, or get KOed after a prolonged war of a fight?

One could argue that getting KOed after a long, sustained beatdown (like Tyson did against Douglas) shows at least a great fighting heart and an ability to stand in there and take a punch. So in that respect, it's not as bad as getting KOed by one shot. But on the other hand, it could be argued that getting KOed like Tyson did, getting completely picked apart, is worse than getting hit by a "fluke" punch. It points to serious flaws.

 

:good


My take on it as well.

But I think the one punch "fluke" and coming back and avenging the win, is better than a prolonged beating. A prolonged beating shows that the other guy is just out and out better than you.

 

You never answered the question. The question was why didn't "bone breaker" Tyson, break Holyfield's jaw? If he did he would have won. Same as with Douglas.

And with Klitschko's "lucky" cut, which cut are we talking about? The one above the eye? The one below the eye? or the slashed open lip?

As for Tyson and Lewis in their primes, I never said even once, that Tyson didn't have power, of course he did, but he also had flaws. Shavers too had more power than anyone in the 70's but does anyone think he was the best? Nope.


I don't have a huge problem in saying that Tyson may have had more power than Lewis, but it was close. I personally think Lewis may have more one punch power, because of the leverage behind the shots, but Tyson generated an enormous amount of speed in his punches, and I think most of the damage came from throwing combinations, and Tyson was a much better body puncher than Lewis was.

But they aren't leagues apart no matter who you pick.

However, one think is certain, Tyson never decked Ruddock in under 5 minutes, the way Lewis did, and that's a fact.

As for Bruno, what's interesting is that a lot of fighters, will say that the guy who gave them prolonged beatings, hit harder than the guys who knocked them out. My guess is because with a prolonged beating you feel the pain much longer and it comes rather frequently, while with a knock out you really don't feel anything, it's just lights out.

Add to that that a body attack could leave you in pain for weeks, not days, and I'd be surprised if anyone would pick being knocked out as the more painful experience, it's not.

But health wise, if you've been KO'd, your brain's been short-circuited.

 

LOL , Tyson went life and death with Ruddock despite getting a KO win and a wide UD after knocking the guy down, like 5 times or so ? Is that your definition of struggling ? Bowe knocked Hide across the ring like a ragdog with I forgot how many knock downs, so he went life and death too because VK finished him in two ?

Never mind, you are Lewis's official nut sack Massageotheraphist.

 

I think you didn't accept a F. Botha's opinion who fought Tyson
and Lewis.
Tyson was better bodypuncher than Lewis but the bodypunch is nothingto do with the broken jaw,nose,skull.
The combination is nothing to do with the broken bones.
It's a logical bizarre idea.
Can you imagine a bodypunch helps the nose,jaw,skull breaking ?
Is it your idea? How ? After a brutal bodypunch a bleeding broken
nose. My limited brain capacity can't follow this logic.

( Honorable mention:I think Tyson broke Boyd's nose by his first landed punch.)

 

could it be because so many Americans hate Lewis because he beat their guys ????

a lot of guys from the states seem to down play non America heavy weight champs unless this is unfair/untrue to say?

In some ways its like the Klit's, many Americans have had such a hard time with the Klits doing as well as they have done.

Not all, not by a long shot, just saying I think there is a portion that do have a hard time about this, will admit that its only because of a weak era's etc etc,

i don't think its a big deal,, i think its natural in a way, Lewis was the most skilled big guy in the history of boxing in so many ways, 6.5 twenty years ago was MASSIVE, today its only huge. All guys 6.5 and over with frankensteins with at least one big hole in their overall game. Not Lewis, he was skilled all around in all the areas. Even in jaw regardless if his jaw was not top notched, it was still good enough in all rematches etc