Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

It also helps that the only men he was ever beaten by were two top 10 greats, one of whom he defeated once himself.

 

And then hes got guys like bugner, bonavena who were also ranked highly iirc

 

Ellis had already been beaten 5 times and did not make the top ten in Ring Magazine Annual ratings for 1970. However Quarry did.

Most acknowledge that Frazier is going to beat the lesser punchers close to his size. Frazier's list of punchers is rather thin.

A fighter can raise his status in a loss depending on the circumstances. In this case Vitali was in the lead, and Lewis ran away from the re-match.

I think Vitali would be better than 1-4 vs Ali and Foreman.

 

Let's be real. Byrd was lucky Vitali tore up his shoulder in round three. That's the only reason he won. If you say Vitali quit as he feared for hsi career, then he's in good company with many hall of fame fighters who quit with injures not as severe.

Vitali fought 15 guys who were either champion, or rated in the ring magazine annual ratings, and had some other guys in the top 5 back out of fights with him ( Haye and Valuev ).

How many did Liston face? Maybe 10? Heavyweight boxing from 1956-1963 was at a low tide.

 

It is a bit better than that, but the point stands.

He does tend to get built up based on a thin resume against the elites, and being Wladamir's brother.

Would he have been a lot more if things had turned out differently?

Probably, but we have to work with what we know.

 

Whether he would or not, it is pure speculation, so you can't hang anything on the hypothesis.

 

Have him just inside the top twenty. But given the arbitrariness of the enterprise, he could be just outside of it too.

H2h however, I have him well inside the top ten.

 

Vitali didn't face great competition, that much is true.

But hideous is a little harsh.

I don't think I'd put much dough on Eddie going 3-0 against Sanders, Peter and Areola.

 

Patterson was 26 years old he was not past his prime

 

Patterson was 37 years and 8 months old when he had his last fight ,[against Muhammad Ali].

 

And still gave Ali a good fight!

 

Me neither. Machen lost a lot. He was a defensive minded counter puncher type who fought in a time with very few large ( 220 + pound ) punchers. Remember, Ingo iced Machen in one round!

Does one really need to see a fighter face another hall of fame fighter in his prime to achieve greatness? I say no if he's utterly dominate in the ring as Vitali was. As I've said before no fighter in the history of the ring has a better rounds won to rounds lost ratio than Vitali.

Many focus on his size, or KO%, but few get he was a decent counter puncher with good defensive reflexes, and head movement, who could go to the body or uppercut if needed. In addition Vitlai moved around the ring quickly and was a master at judging the distance where he could be effective and his opponent could not.