Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

That's really what it all boils down to. While I'd pick Vitali Klitscko to trouble or perhaps even beat a fair number of good fighters from other periods for both physical and stylistic reasons, the fact remains that his resume is thin. Sam Peter, Kirk Johnson, Corrie Sanders and Tomasz adamek were quite possibly the best fighters he defeated. Of those four, at least three of them were in poor shape and at least two were well past prime. None of them accomplished anything really spectacular. A few were even able to land on him with some regularity. Once again Klitscko might have beaten some of the notables that some of us have in our top 10. But when assigning him a rating, I'm not even sure he belongs in anybody's top 20.

 

Judging on Machen's record vs. the best four punchers he fought, ( Frazier, Liston, Ingo, and Williams - Mendoza

Yes it is correct. Most here will agree the 3 of the 4 names I listed were the best punchers Machen fought. You're either becoming too stubborn on this topic, or simply need to watch more.

Come on! Who the heck did DeJohn knock out? Could be ZERO guys in the top ten. Power is tied to class. A quick review of DeJohn's resume will tell you he took many journeyman types the record.

[url]http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=22833&cat=boxer[/url]

Based on the fact that he could not beat a chinny Cleveland Williams, I doubt that. Based on the fact that Ingo iced Machen in one round, I doubt that.

The list of depressed fighters or fighters on drugs is a long one. Machen came back to what? He was never champion, and his record vs the best is a losing one. While he had a nice comeback to return to contender status, I think its a Mr. Fantastic like stretch to call it the greatest of all time.

I had him in the 90's. There have not been many elite heavies. Very good ones uncommon. So yeah he made the cut.

There you go again....Vitali if faced with the same opponents he does much better than Machen. Who is to say which era is better?

You fancy smaller heavies. That's fine. I'm telling you they lose more often than not to larger and bigger punchers. The light heavies today are a good group...and they would get cream if they fought what you view as a bad group of heavies.

What I do know is Vitali beat bigger men who hit harder, and has a more impressive record vs top ten fighters. In addition Vitali achieved #1 stats. Machen didn't sniff it.

 

Vitali turned pro in Nov 1996, so take Ike off the list. He fought Lewis and Byrd, neither would give him a re-match. Byrd said Vitali was better than Wlad for what's it worth.

Holyfield was shot as was Tyson when Vitlai had belts. Vitali was scheduled to fight Tyson next if he beat Danny Williams. When Tyson lost, Vitali fought Williams instead.

Vitali was scheduled to fight Rhaman, but suffered an injury during training. Vitali wanted to fight with a bad knee, but was talked out of doing it by his trainer.

Ruiz, Rhaman, Golota, Vaulev, etc...fought a Don King controlled " championship " series that had bad action and questionable score cards.

I would have loved for Vitlai to end Ruiz's career. Ruiz soiled the game

David Haye and Valuev backed out of fights with Vitali.

You could say Povetkin or Chagaev could have been scheduled, but Wlad fought them instead.

From my count Vitali fought 14 people that were rated in the top ten, and beat 12 of them.

 

vwhen vits "wants" to fight someone pretty decent, injury comes a calling, and he doesn't fight them ever.

rahman must have put the fear of god in him, someone whio sparked out postprime lennox (albeit destroyed in rematch) the lennox who stopped him with most of the fight left to spare in worst shape ever.

do the math.

 

I reckon.

 

I don't see a terribly strong argument for rating Sonny Liston over Lennox Lewis or even haling him as being "better" in any way. Lewis was the best of a division for the better part of about 5 years and through many title fights. Sonny fought far less ranked men and his title reign was short. Lewis was a two time olympic medalist. Liston had virtually no amateur career to speak of. Both men lost to lesser opponents, but defeats to Rahman and McCall weren't as bad as losing to Marty Marshal or Leotis Martin.. No brainer for me.

 

Liston looks better to me.
He didn't fight an amazing crop of contenders by any means, but he made short work of most of them.

It should be noted that Liston lost to Marshall, an 8 round split decision in only his EIGHTH PRO FIGHT.
And losing to Martin came when he was seriously past it, out of condition, and just fighting on for the money.
I don't think those defeats are as bad as Lewis losing his titles to McCall and Rahman is big title fights.

Liston's losses to Clay/Ali are suspicious too.

 

lewis lost those fights in his supposed prime though, unlike Liston.

Sonny was in the wrong place at the wrong time for a title run with Ali coming through.

 

I do think that Liston would have found a way to blow it anyway, to be honest.

Great champions are rare, but those with the mindset for longevity are rarer.

Liston didn't have it.

 

Anyone who thinks Liston is better than Lewis is delusional. Lewis is H2H probably the best ever heavyweight.