Joe Louis vs. Sonny Liston

Very well put. Ali (considered the other of the top 2 by many)gets that luxury, but Joe doesn't.

 

You spotted that, too, McVey?

 

I think Walcott won the first fight. What's the issue?

Despite dropping Louis in round one, and once again in round four, he lost a 15 round split decision. Most ringside observers and boxing writers felt Walcott deserved the win,

 

I'll go with Louis w/ Chappie and Manny Seamon over sonny and his guys that held the spit bucket.

Blackburn would figure out a way to deal with Liston's strengths and nullify them w/ prefight tactics and strategies.
the bout would be won during the pre-fight preperations where you have a great corner vs a less than average corner. The great corners don't lose these matches. But the other corner is the one helping their guy back to the stool and putting the robe on.

 

Louis won some big fights and lost many as well.


EZ Charles
JJ Walcott ( most thought he won)
Schmeling
Marciano.

All Defeated him.

Nearly beaten by Conn and Godoy,( Lt heavies )

best wins..... Max Baer ( Baer broke his hand in rd 2) Buddy Baer, Farr, Sharkey, And of course did better the second time around with the above greats( minus Marciano)

Liston has a chance to defeat Louis. Joe to me, although great, is only in my top 5.

 

What you omit to mention here, is that Louis beat 30+ fighters who were currently ranked in the top 10, while Liston beat a number that would not hit double figures.

Louis has the edge in competition, several times over.

 

Absolutely.


I think Louis takes this fight too, Liston does present some challenges... But Louis is better.

 

This is my take as well. But damn, Liston was strong as hell. With top notch skills to boot.

Helluva fight.

 

I presented this opinion to McGrain once, and he asked me to give the argument for Liston winning.

I said that if Liston won, it would be because he was much better able to anticipate his opponent, and think on the spot.

At his best of course.

 

Louis never beat Ezzard Charles. I think that's what you typed. Just a tiny mistake, it happens.

 

Liston gives Louis some trouble early on but Louis eventually breaks him down and stops him late.

 

Haven't gone any further than this...but this is what I buy. Sure Liston has a stylistic advantage due to physical attributes ie reach with the jab...but Louis can unleash some serious hell on anyone who comes straight at him. I wouldn't be surprised at this going the distance.

 

Liston went 50-4 (39) overall and 2-2 (2) in HW World Title Fights. He was stopped 3 times. 6'1" with an 84" reach and about 210-215 Lbs.

Louis went 66-3 (52) 1NC overall (give or take a win or two) and 26-1 (23) in HW World Title Fights. He was stopped twice and avenged one of those losses by KO. 6'2" with a 76" reach and about 200-205 Lbs.

Louis had quicker hands and was the more accurate puncher. Louis was also the better overall boxer. He threw better combinations and in my honest opinion was the harder puncher. Louis was also the better inside fighter. Liston may have been physically stronger but Louis was far from weak and was very smart... he knew how to handle bigger and stronger men.

Liston had two close fights with Johnny Summerlin early in his career. He went 2-1 (1) vs. Marty Marshall (suffering a broken jaw in the loss). He beat Bert Whitehurst by decision twice. He beat guys like Wayne Bethea, Frankie Daniels, Ernie Cab, Mike DeJohn, Nino Valdes, Willi Besmanoff, Howard King, Roy Harris, and Albert Westphal by KO. He also beat Cleveland Williams KO3 and KO2, Zora Folley KO3, Eddie Machen W12, and Floyd Patterson KO1 x2. He lost the HW title to Ali, LKOby6.

Louis won his first 24 fights, 20 by KO before being stopped by Max Schmeling in the 12th round. He had beat guys like Primo Carnera, Max Baer, Paulino Uzcudun by KO. He would later avenge the loss to Schmeling, KO1, but not before winning the HW World HW Title by beating Jimmy Braddock KO8. He defended the title 25 times before retiring as champion. He also beat Jack Sharkey, Al Ettore, Bob Pastor x2, Tommy Farr, Nathan Mann, John Henry Lewis, Tony Galento, Arturo Godoy x2, Abe Simon x2, Buddy Baer x2, Billy Conn x2, Lou Nova, and Jersey Joe Walcott x2 among others. Only Pastor (1st fight), Farr, and Walcott (1st fight) went the distance.

 

All very well, but doesn't mean a thing in a h2h match up. What you could also say is that the guys Liston stopped were all stopped early with the exception of a few in 6 rounds, 1 in 7, and 1 in 8. Louis on the other hand went into double figured rounds before stopping some of his opponents. Or Liston boxed a total of 267 rounds in 54 fights, compared to Louis's 417 in 69 fights. This would suggest that the more dangerous of the 2 early was Liston. As someone said Louis wasn't hard to hit, and there is every chance Liston stops him before he gets into his rhythm.

 

Louis could not hit as hard as Liston-almost nobody could-but his combinations could be lethal. Louis only had one loss anywhere near his prime.
his competition was much better.

But it is a fair point Liston was more dangerous early. And Louis sometimes carried white opponents due to racism.

I would take Louis of '42. The corner is a significant advantage, but THIS Louis was very well seasoned against all types & still around his physical prime, a bit heavier, & rested from the overexertion of the year before.

Would Liston's better skills than the other big men Louis beat win the day?
I do not think so. Louis would likely have enough preparation & skill to neutralize Sonny enough.