Why doesn't Lennox have universal approval ?

Alter that to I don't WANT to fuking know, because like racism was a few years ago, it is the latest subject for girlie type histrionics. Every halfwit and his dog proclaims himself an " expert " on PED's, and makes imbecilic sweeping statements accusing every athlete of taking them.

Like most fads 99.999999999% of it is pure sh it.

 

I thought Holyfield was one of those guys who walked around weighing LESS than he did when he fought. Wasn't he one of the first fighters to use that Mackie Shilstone guy to learn how to bulk up effectively?

 

The only problem I see with this post is you haven't produced even a shred of evidence to back up anything you've said.

Na, Zero, Zip, Zilch,

And if every heavyweight was on PED's then why are so many of them so ****ing fat and out of shape?

 

You're 100% correct about the environment tailoring the PED's of choice.

The time line is what needs a bit of tweaking. Good ol' fashioned roids were already around and established in the 1960's. To continue your point about sprinters, there was never an official sub 10 second 100m dash run before they'd infiltrated track and field teams worldwide.

There also wasn't close to the stigma attached to them, or most PED's, for that matter, that exists today. They weren't even illegal in the Olympics until the 1970's and boxing until much later. HGH was already on the scene in the 1970's.

It seems wishful thinking at best to assume all the 60's,70's, and 80's gentlemen just performed at world class levels by eating their vitamins and saying their prayers like Hulk Hogan said while insinuating the gents from the 90's -2000's on are juicing like Hulk Hogan did. The dynamic of winning at all costs has been in boxing since day 1, and no era was immune to the temptation. The access was certainly there.

It's merely the choices in the catalog that change and evolve, and changing fight limits and weigh in policies certainly play into that.

 

Hello, there! First admit I've set you straight on your belief that Lewis won two Olympic medals, before posing as a truth crusader.

Heavyweight championship line:

Holmes, acknowledged clean champion
Young Mike Tyson, acknowledged clean phenomenon
Evander Holyfield, acknowledged PED user

The list of acknowledged PED users from this brave, new time is long. Look it up.

Jim Lampley has described non-acknowledgment of PED use in boxing as an "intellectual disconnect". I agree.

HATE, you say? I hate cheating. It is not "hate" to point out the obvious.

 

You seem to have a problem putting together an intelligent argument.

Show me proof that Lewis was a PED user and Tyson, Holmes wasn't. That's all I'm asking. It appears that McGrain is basically asking the same question.

 

1. The prime Tyson wasn't into the weightlifting at all obviously
he wasn't PED user.
2. After the Tyson-Golota the doping control couldn't find
steroid or another PED problem (only marijuana) in Tyson case.
This proves Tyson was under control.

3. Lewis bulked his skinny body .How? When the Lewis fans' most important excuse he was a lazy athlete,arrogant and
sometimes(it wasn't a rare thing) unprepared.
By my experience an ectomorph can't build big quality muscle mass
without PED.
I think you live in love with Lewis or you are a pathetic paided
agent. Calm down and finish this pathetic Lewis propaganda !
We are here for the boxing and nobody cares your unintelligent
Lewis propaganda.

 

Has anyone actually weighed the sun? Who has seen a living tyrannosaur?

Humans must work with available evidence, and reach reasonable conclusions.

I am not a boxing insider. I am a fan, boxing has given me much, and I am entitled to my own conclusions.

Historically, the great heavyweight champions have adhered to natural laws of human physical development, performance and decline. They are standards of reasonability. On ****ysis, Lewis defies such laws and standards.

Jack Dempsey
Break-in: Age 19, 180 pounds
Signature fight (Willard): Age 24, 180 pounds

Joe Louis
Break-in: Age 20, 181 pounds
Signature fight (Schmeling II): Age 24, 198 pounds

Rocky Marciano
Break-in: Age 23, 192 pounds
Signature fight (Walcott I): Age 29, 184 pounds

Muhammad Ali
Break-in: Age 18, 192 pounds
Signature fight (Liston I): Age 22, 210 pounds
Signature fight (Foreman): Age 32, 216 pounds

Holmes
Break-in: Age 23, 202 pounds
Signature fight (****ey): Age 32, 212 pounds

Tyson
Break-in: Age 18, 214 pounds
Signature fight (Spinks): Age 21, 218 pounds

Lewis
Break-in: Age 23, 231 pounds
Signature fight (Holyfield I): Age 33, 245 pounds

Translation:

History shows a great heavyweight champion peaks between ages 21 and 30. ALL the past greats have done so. (Holmes was past his peak for ****ey. His peak is debatable. He won the title at age 29; personally, Holmes peaked against Ali. He was 30.)

When was Lewis' peak? At age 28, he was getting knocked out by McCall. At age 30, he was being schooled by Mercer.

Lewis was a late developer, you say. But, physically, he defies history.

As stated, ALL the greats peaked between ages 21 and 30, at the very latest. Personally - and using largesse - I am choosing Lewis at age 33, 245 pounds, in Holyfield I (though this defies Lewis' own opinion about being at his best for Tyson, when he was age 36 and weighed 249 pounds!!!)

Either way, Lewis is off the charts. And during a rampant PED era.

Another amazing tidbit: Lewis broke in at 231, and for years was comfortable in the 233-pound range. When McCall sparked him, Lewis huddled.

8 months later, a new Lewis emerged. Sure, with Steward, but, whereas before Lewis had never weighed more than the whopping 238 for McCall, now he weighed in at 248, and he never looked back. He never again weighed in under 240 pounds, peaking - his words - against Tyson at 249 pounds.

This is extraordinary. With 10 or 15 extra pounds over his youthful fighting prime, and 3 or even 6 years older than ANY past great's peak, Lewis triumphed. In a rampant PED era.

If the man was clean, he was truly a marvel of late development. He obliterated the history book! From Dempsey to Tyson - 70 years of heavyweight greatness - he mocked all that, and forever wrote his name, glittering gold, for posterity.

Except that his generation yawned. Nobody cared.

His apologists notwithstanding, too much contrivance, too much tentativeness, too much sizzle sans steak, for a world that knows better.

 

I am proud of my Mexican-American heritage; thus, the info on my location.

You, however, do not need tequila to babble like a raving drunkard.

 

The only "propaganda" I have is that if you're going to slam someone show some proof or STFU.

Now let's see what you bring to the table in terms of proof, if it's nothing, then that tells us all we need to know about your agenda.

I'm open to the possibly Lewis is a PED user, I'm equally open to the idea Tyson, and/or Holmes are a PED user, just show me proof.

I certainly haven't made ANY claim against a fighter using PED's other than the fact I believe fairly strongly that Holyfield was a PED user, but that's a fact based conclusion. Unlike you, I tend not to convict without evidence, and I certainly don't convict simply because I don't like a particular fighter, cause that's pathetic.

 

No, friend.

I have never said, verbatim, "I know Lennox Lewis used PEDs." That would be folly.

As laid out above, strong suspicion in my heart, that's all. And my attempt to explain why the world at large doesn't care about Lewis - yet continues to embrace Ali and Tyson and even Larry (Rodney Dangerfield) Holmes!

And placing myself in Lewis' big shoes: I know what I would have done as an 18-year-old. Man, had Cus D'Amato himself told me I would one day fight Mike Tyson for the heavyweight championship of the world - after reaching the Olympic quarterfinals, I know where I would have set my sights:

There was a Baddest Man on the Planet out there, wreaking havoc a la Godzilla. Nobody could stop him. Everybody was in awe of him. Such speed, such power, such ferocity.

But I had sparred with him. I knew him as a living, breathing stablemate. I had learned, first to crumble before his power, then to hold my own in a ring with him.

At 18, I would want to prove that I was the best, that I could beat the best.

But Lewis stayed amateur.

 

WTF is that?

Do you have any education at all?

This so called evidence wouldn't get you a passing grade in the first year of any respectable university. This is pathetic.

You are saying that because Lewis was a late bloomer, which could easily be attributed to his late start in professional boxing as he was perusing an Olympic gold metal, that he has to have been a PED user?

That because a guy in his mid to late 30's who is 6'5" gained 10-15lbs that's also proof?

Are you a kid? Cause I'm not and I'll tell you that as you age, you generally gain weight, end of story.

Why?

Because your metabolism slows down, that's why. Hell even a guy named Mike Tyson gained weight at the end of his career. A guy named Muhammad Ali gained weight at the end of his career and yet of these three, according to you, only Lewis HAD to have been a PED user.

And what about Armstrong, how much weight did he gain on PED's?

Really if you don't like the guy just say so, because this is so pathetic that it borders on moronic.

Show me a half decent ****ysis with a little bit of science thrown it or stop wasting my time.

 

This is beyond stupid. So if someone decides to fight for an Olympic metal it means he avoided a particular fighter?

It couldn't possibly mean he was trying to fore fill a childhood dream that millions upon millions of people have now could it?

It couldn't mean he wanted to win a metal for his country and receive all the accolades that come with that, either I presume?

Ever hear of SRL he got rich and famous by winning an Olympic gold metal?

Ever hear of Muhammad Ali, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, did they all duck certain fighters to win gold metals too?

And I don't know how old you are, probably in your 20's, but let me assure you, when Tyson was wrecking havoc in the division, nobody knew it would only last for a year or two. It was generally assumed he would stay on top for a good number of years, so why would someone trying to win a Gold metal assume he didn't have time to both win a metal and secondly go pro?

Your hatred of Lewis is so far off the scales you can't even think rationally. Not sure why, and don't really care, but it's pretty obvious to anyone ready this garbage.

 

Well, I'm no expert but I know it's not just a case of looking as ripped/muscular as Bruno and/or having incredible stamina.

I do believe the majority of modern athletes at the elite professional level has taken PEDs at some time in their careers.

Just like I believe the vast majority of top female film or TV actors/presenters/entertainers have had cosmetic enhancements/surgery before they get to 40 or 45.

Welcome to modern reality.