Swap Mayweather's and Pacquiao's opponents since 2009:

I can say, but I was driving in my car and responding to you. It's difficult to post on forums while commuting, sorry.

Again: nobody is elevating wins over these men to great heights. It is Pacquiao fans that are elevating HIS WINS to great heights. I am just keeping it real. Yes, Ortiz and Guerrero aren't great wins. And nobody with sense ever claimed they were. Same goes for the Mosley fight. Sorry, but I don't throw the term "great" around loosely like so many others do. It loses value when you do.

But let's not rewrite history: Many people thought Floyd would NEVER fight Mosley. So it is what it is there. If Floyd didn't fight Mosley, people LIKE YOU would claim he ducked Mosley.

If you want "my rating of the wins," -- Quote me here: "Solid wins over top contenders." That simple. Nothing great, but not bad either. Sorry if I disappointed you, but I don't rate wins higher just because Mayweather fought the guy.

However, how does any of this excuse Pacquiao for fighting 60% of his fights against unranked opposition at 147? How does it excuse Manny Pacquiao only fighting 1 man at 147, who was actually coming off a win at welterweight? It doesn't. And if you're going to defend that resume, you're a serious fanboy.

And you never answered: Would you excuse Mayweather for fighting the same opponents Pac has at 147? I highly doubt it.
Would you be critical of Pacquiao if he was regarded as the champion in both 147, and 154, while holding 4 of the 8 major titles? I highly doubt it.

The double standard is plain to see for anybody who looks at it objectively.

 

pacquaio would "rios" Alvarez

 

I think their records are both great for what there is to work with. I dock points from Floyd simply because of his retirement and how he criticized the Pac/Cotto weight yet did the same thing for Alvarez. Whether Clottey or Margarito were ranked at the time doesn't mean they weren't just as good of opponents as the likes of Ortiz or Guerrero.

 

Speaking of tearing to shreds, I was going to do that to your logic, but it looks like a couple of other posters did that already.

And to say he has 3-4 meaningful fights after 130 is ridiculous. I'm not even going to argue with you. Your point is just that far off it's insane.

 

Clottey is actually a win over a ranked opponent. (Not included in the 60%)
Cotto, even though it should always be noted it was a catchweight bout, was Pac's best performance at 147 in my opinion. It's his signature/best win. (Again, this is a man coming off a win at 147, a known quantity, and is NOT included in the 60% figure)

Oscar, Rios, Algieri, Bradley I, Marquez twice... that's 6 bouts out of 10, or 60% against "non-ranked opponents." Oscar hadn't fought in the division in 7 years. All the other guys moved up and hadn't even won a fight yet after their move.

Think about that for one second: How many men has Mayweather brought up in weight to 147 vs Pacquiao?

Mayweather has fought 2 men who were moving up: Hatton and Marquez. And Hatton had won a title (from a lesser champion) in a close bout at 147 before. Only 1 (Marquez) hadn't at least won a single fight at 147 before.

Pacquiao has fought 4 men (40% of his WW fights!) who moved up: Marquez, Rios, Algieri, and Bradley. 3 had never won a fight at 147 in their career. If you want to count Bradley's early junior title and all that, fair enough. But one could argue that's really 4 guys who hadn't made so much as a whisper in the 147 pound division when Pac fought them.

Margarito is not factored into the percentages at all, as I said: different weight class. It has no bearing on what I'm saying about Pac's 147 pound run. It's a moot point.

Yes, Floyd was a hypocrite for the Alvarez fight. :good You can find many posts from me: No catchweight fight should EVER be for the title. Full weight limit or nothing. That doesn't mean I don't mind champions meeting at a weight to make a fight, but I think it should be for the fans/pride, and not for titles. If you want the title, fight the man at his weight limit. It is still a good win over a top ranked opponent. And like Mosley, let's not rewrite history: Many thought Floyd would never fight Canelo period, even at 152. I think the "coward" talk has taken on a life of its own and people are just not thinking clearly.

Floyd missing weight against Marquez was also bad. But if anybody can say with conviction that had any bearing on the outcome of that bout based on what they saw in the ring, I would be very surprised. It was clear Floyd beats that man at any weight class they compete in. Just IMO.

I agree Pacquiao is an ATG fighter, but his record post-130 pounds has been greatly exaggerated since his burst into an international superstar.

135 - 1 fight and win over David Diaz. Arguably the weakest champion of the time. Certainly not the top guy at the time. (Not saying Pac couldn't have beat the other champions, but we're not into hypothetical wins here, just the facts) Never defended the title.
140 - 1 fight and win over Ricky Hatton. Devastating KO. (I predicted Pac would win via destruction coincidentally enough) I didn't like what I saw in the Juan Lazcano fight, and Malignaggi isn't going to chin check Hatton. Good win for Pac who sent Hatton reeling into retirement with 1 punch. Never defended the title.
147 - See above.
154 - 1 fight and win over Margarito at 150 catchweight. Margarito was coming off a 1 year suspension and a win over a journeyman. Completely manufactured "vacant title" shot that wasn't earned. Margarito literally had never won at 154 in his career, yet Pacquiao gets a "world title" by beating him at 150. Absolute disgrace that honestly is a great example of one of the things that is wrong with boxing. Never defended the title.

Think about that.... 3 weight classes, only 1 fight each. Not exactly "taking on challenges."

Now if you compare that with the weight classes Floyd has competed in.... Well, I see I a much more thorough body of work.

130 - Tied with Alexis Arguello for most title defenses in history.
135 - Challenged Castillo in his very first fight. Defended 3 times.
140 - 3 wins, 2 eliminator bouts to force a title shot because Gatti wouldn't fight him. Nobody wanted a piece of Floyd at 140 after that fight. Arum "Cotto isn't ready." (And Arum promoted Mayweather then) Hatton's team: "Not ready"
154 - 3 wins, all over champions: Oscar, Cotto, and Alvarez. Alvarez was at a catchweight of 152 pounds.
147 - A longer discussion and this post is long enough.....

The only division Mayweather hasn't defended a title in was 140 pounds. And I'd love to hear who wanted to fight Floyd at 140 after what he did to Arturo. Because I remember crickets.


But if you see what I'm getting at, you'll see that Pacquiao has his own resume problems. I personally believe this is going to get exposed this Saturday, and I don't anticipate a competitive bout overall. Yea, Pac will have his moments and he will land punches (it is a fight after all), but it will turn into a usual Mayweather affair.

Nobody is always right though... so maybe I'll be eating some serious crow pies Sunday.

 

Not going to quote all that, but I don't really question their resumes. It's only when a fanbase of one bashes the other and uses hypocritical thinking to try and make a point. Pac has had a fantastic career resume wise as has Floyd. There will always be people they missed. I'm not going to knock fighters who get in the ring with the likes of Cotto, Margarito, Maidana, Clottey, Bradley, or ODH. To me they've had similar careers since arriving at WW as far as resume. It's laughable watching idiots try to downplay one while building up the others.

As for this Saturday, it'll be interesting. Styles make fights. Floyd isn't Marquez and it'll be interesting to see his plan in action.

 

I agree. Both are ATG fighters that we'll be watching on Saturday.

I just think people need to chill out with the whole resume bashing. Especially considering they've fought many of the same people. Both guys have things you can praise, and criticize.

 

If Mayweather and Pacquiao switched opponents from 09-now I'd call Pacquiao one of the greatest and say Mayweather was a major cherry picker.

Let's be real Floyd's opponent's since coming back **** on Manny's
come on Floyd fighting Cotto coming off a KO loss & controversial decision with no trainer. Clottey who's biggest achievement was running a Cotto with no trainer close, Margarito coming off a KO loss and suspension, Mosley coming off a loss & draw, LW Marquez even further past prime 2x, Bradley who is a mixed bag at WW, Rios coming off a loss/controversial decision, Algeri coming off a debatable decision.

Ain't nobody saying Mayweather been fighting ATG's but His recent comp is way, way, way better Than again I can see Manny catching 2-3 L in the process.

 

Pacquiao gets KO'd either way

 

Glad to see some additional skepticism about Bradley's WW credentials in this thread. He's been a huge beneficiary of Top Rank's diminishing stable consisting primarily of guys who are eiher as small as him for the weight or completely unskilled.

And yeah he got robbed against Chaves but then again he benefited from a missed KD against an unskilled junior welter in Provodnikov.

The notion that he's the third best in the division by default or even worse top 3 P4P in the sport when he fought Pacquiao is absurd. Heck it's even worse than The Ring having Mosley just as high on their P4P list when Mayweather fought him after Roach had turned him down.

 

I think point people are missing about Manny is he is naturally a small guy. Catch weight or not, he is 5'6" and has gotten into the ring with many legends. When is the last time Pac fought someone smaller than him?

You are knocking Pac's resume but disregarding the fact that he was always the smaller man.

 

Manny is an ATG but if we're talking 09-now he was the same size as Cotto,Marquez. Shorter than Mosley,Clottey,Algeri,Rios. And he was bigger than Bradley.
Manny is built up as this smaller fighter but if you look at the in ring weight for a lot of his biggest fight's throughout his entire career he's been the same size or heavier then most of his notable adversaries.
I can't knock em since the fight was first talked about in 09" both have been Properly managed Mayweather has been more legitimate though, Whether you call it timing or whatever Lineal Champ in 2 division's right now.
Hopefully on Saturday everything becomes more clear and we get a right outcome. Still though if you switched there recent opponents Floyd would still be unbeaten and Manny would still have some losses abit to better comp

 

Are we assuming they're at the same weight? If so...

Pacquiao vs. Marquez

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Pacquiao vs. Mosley

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Pacquiao vs. Ortiz

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Pacquiao vs. Cotto

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Pacquiao vs. Guerrero

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Paquiao vs. Alvarez

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Pacquiao vs. Maidana I

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Pacquiao vs Maidana II

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And

Mayweather vs. Hatton

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Mayweather vs. Cotto

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Mayweather vs. Clottley

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Mayweather vs. Margarito

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Mayweather vs. Marquez

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Mayweather vs. Mosley

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Mayweather vs. Bradley

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Mayweather vs. Marquez

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Mayweather vs. Rios

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Mayweather vs Bradley

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Mayweather vs. Algeri

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I think Pac fans would be calling Algieri untested, Rios and Margarito plodders, Bradley small, and Clottey a bum

 

Nice, good read. And I agree, with everything you mentioned.

 

Alvarez could not even KD a shot Mosley.atsch