Max Schmeling vs. Sonny Liston

"Liston's chin is not really being called into question, surely?"

To a degree. He had a good chin, but I would question if we should consider it better than that of Joe Louis. Liston simply didn't meet as many tough punchers over as long a time, and yet was stopped more often. Much depends, I guess, on if one views the second Ali fight as at all legit.

But whatever, Louis was never KO'd by a fairly ordinary contender like Leotis Martin, and was never knocked down by a second-tier light-heavy contender like Marty Marshall.

So I think it very possible that the rights that wrecked Louis might also wreck Liston.

 

Liston might quit sooner.

 

In fairness Liston was ancient when Martin iced him. I agree with other posters that Schmeling is possibly being sold short here, though I edge towards Liston.

 

I think liston had a much better chin than louis. he was just sturdier than Louis. Louis got knocked down a lot, for example by the likes of Braddock who was not a hard hitter. He had good recuperative powers though.

The first Liston-Ali fight is not really an indicator of chin, but many would argue that Liston was past his prime in both Ali bouts, and especially against Martin, he was ancient in that fight.

anyway, I think liston is a much better fighter than schmeling. He had a much better jab. Better combo puncher, better on the inside. he was likely a harder hitter also, though that's tougher to say. the only time Schmeling really impressed me was Louis I, aside from that I see no evidence to act like he had what it took to KO Liston.

 

Maybe not on different tiers but then again I think it's quite obvious that Liston had greater durability. Just look at how many times Louis was floored. That should be a dead giveaway IMO.

Liston's fights against Cleveland Williams show me all I need to know about prime Liston's chin. doubt Louis would be able to take those bombs from Big Cat

 

Liston had no chin.... Ali barely grazed him and he could not make the count.

Louis had a better chin

 

I agree that you have to also look past the # of knockdowns, but you can't ignore them either. No doubt that balance comes into play as well. There's a lot of factors. But I never saw Liston get knocked down by someone with Braddock's power - that certainly isn't a good look if we are looking at Louis' durability. That also wasn't down to balance either, he just got hit with a good right hand.

N'Dam also doesn't have a good chin imo.

Recuperative abilities fall under "heart" imo. Chin is different than how you recover from a shot. for example Patterson didn't have a very good chin, that motherfvcker got knocked down countless times. but he rarely got put down for the count, he got up almost as many times as he got knocked down. So Patterson has a lot of heart but doesn't have a good chin. Perhaps Louis falls under the same kind of category (not saying Louis' chin is as bad as Patterson's)

 

To put Joe Louis's knockdowns into perspective :

He wasn't knocked down as a pro until his 25th fight
Then it was in his 33rd .... 40th .... 50th ... 57th, 58th, 59th ... 68th

In his 54 fights before the war he was knocked down 5 times. That included 21 successful defences of the title, and umpteen ranked contenders.

I think Liston has 54 fights his whole career, and not so many defences or contenders by any stretch.