Will History Favour The Brave? Case of Oscar De La Hoya

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Gannicus, May 7, 2015.


  1. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    I've never been able to let this one go. Oscar is greater than given credit for.

    How would you rate my version of Oscar?

    W/D Whitaker (as past prime as current Mayweather)
    W Trinidad
    W Mosley On Steroids (a rematch win, too)
    W Quartey
    W Vargas On Steroids
    W Genaro
    W Castillejo
    W Gonzalez
    W Leija
    W Molina
    W Bredahl
    W Mayorga
    L Mayweather (Oscar was legitimately past prime anyway + coke addicted, depression + shoulder tear etc.)
    L Pacquiao (Oscar was shot + shoulder tear)
    L Hopkins (Oscar was dwarfed and had no business in with such a big guy)
    L Sturm (Oscar was on the way down, very fat for the weight, it further emphasises the statements made in regards to Hopkins)
    L Mosley

    How much can you REALLY hold those losses against him? They're past prime losses!
    Oscar since 2006 had a slight tear in his rotator cuff (not a significant tear like that suffered by Pacquiao, but enough to be a legit problem. Read up on it). 2006 is before both May and Pac fights!

    Oscar's only prime loss was to prime Mosley, and Oscar earned greatness points by avenging that loss against a Mosley on steroids. When you think of Mosley, don't think of the ancient 2010, 2011 Mosley of recent memory vs May and Pac.
    ----------------------------------
    It seems from some people's comments, history will not favour the brave. They are saying Mayweather is a Top 20 ATG - in terms of H2H ability, maybe but come on...Oscar would have beaten ALL of Mayweather's opposition.
    Mayweather is a guy who has shied away from challenges since Jose Luis Castillo rematch all the way to Cotto. 10 years!

    Because ya'll are brainwashed, imagine Oscar had an even fight, and just edging todays version of Mayweather. Everyone will be proclaiming his greatness. Well, wake up call...Oscar beat Whitaker, a better guy.

    Mayweather's top wins:
    W Pacquiao (past prime, surgery level injured)
    W Castillo 2 (a rematch after losing to him)
    W Canelo (stylistic mismatch)
    W Cotto
    W Corrales
    W Genaro

    How do these wins compare to Quartey, Trinidad, Whitaker, Mosley etc?

    In regards to longevity, Oscar had 45 fights. Before becoming a past prime, part time fighter, he had 40 fights! All in a space of 12 years without taking any breaks. Can you imagine Floyd fighting Gonzalez, Whitaker, Kamau, Camacho and Rivera all in one year for example?
    Underrated longevity.

    Mayweather has no losses because 1. he hasn't fought stylistic threats really. Oscar fought stylistic threats. 2. he has only fought easy opponents, not monsters like Quartey and Trinidad. 3. He fought twice a year. 4. He lost against Castillo in reality.

    Oscar has proven he has decent H2H ability. At 140lbs for example, prime for prime, he could have possibly got the decision over Floyd for example.

    Take home points:
    - Great, numerous marquee wins at or near peak
    - Past prime/shot losses only
    - Underrated longevity
    - Decent wins besides the great wins at or near peak

    Think and reflect.
     
  2. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I have a lot of respect for Oscar. I honestly believe if he were in his prime he would likely beat Mayweather. Against Tito, while he probably should have won that fight, it was his own stupidity that lost it for him. I can't imagine someone like Duran playing that, " I've won enough rounds to coast" game. You fight til the bell goes period.

    Other than losing to SSM who in his prime, was no easy fight, I think Oscar had a great career.

    Where would I rate Oscar, pretty high, but I'm not exactly sure how high. Top 50 -60 range.
     
  3. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    It should be noted those corrupt judges actually scored several of the late coasting rounds for Oscar. No way he could beat Toto, the fix was in. The coasting rounds costing him the fight argument is a myth.
     
  4. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    We've all seen that fight, the overwhelming majority have Oscar winning, regardless of whether the fix was in or not.
     
  5. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    Yup, I have Oscar around 50th. Thus a Top 50.
     
  6. The Mongoose

    The Mongoose I honor my bets banned

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    Just pointing out that Oscar win rounds 9 and 12 on two of the judges cards, so late coasting wasnt the reason he lost on the official cards, he was robbed and nothing he could do, the cards made no sense.
     
  7. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Not sure why anyone wouldn't give the guy some credit. He fought all the tough guys at or near their peak, and took the measure of most. Unlike a certain other modern-day welter who goes out of his way to avoid real challenges, Oscar sought them out. Good for him.
     
  8. MaxDamage

    MaxDamage Member Full Member

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    The problem with Oscar is he lost all his career-defining fights: Trinidad, Mosleyx2. Tough luck, but truly great fighter find a way to win. He is oftern compared to Ray Leonard but never on the same level because of this reason.
     
  9. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    But better to have fought those fights and lost, then to have avoided those fights in the first place.

    Agreed?
     
    PernellSweetPea likes this.
  10. MaxDamage

    MaxDamage Member Full Member

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    Of course, what's wrong? Oscar is in IBHOF, he's well-loved, or as OP says history favour him. I don't think there is anything wrong with public perception about Oscar.
     
  11. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    That's the thing, he DIDN'T lose those fights in reality. People keep acting like he does. That's why I specifically said 'MY version of Oscar De La Hoya' in this threat.
     
  12. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oscar def a great fighter. If he had rightfully gotten the nod against Mosely in one fight and Trinidad he would be viewed much different. Many ppl would probably pick him prime for prime over mayweather had he won those fights.
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah, he deserves to be rated ahead of Mayweather, if that's what you're asking.

    Behind Whitaker though.
     
  14. Quick Cash

    Quick Cash Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Oscar, like Pacquiao, rounded out at welterweight. Whitaker was the final exam before graduation, but I personally struggle to hand him the victory in that one. He would go on to narrowly beat Quartey and decisively defeat Tito Trinidad in his (Oscar's) absolute peak. To me, both Mosley bouts should also have been draws.

    Mayweather, by contrast, reached maturity as a 130-pound fighter. These comparisons to full-fledged welterweights have never sat well with me. To little controversy, I think Floyd's career has mirrored Whitaker's to a good extent. He drew with Castillo by my reckoning, dropped a few decisions to volume punchers in the twilight years.

    I have Oscar just outside of the top ten of the very rich welterweight division; Floyd undeniably top two in his 130 pounds. Both have carved histories worthy of remembrance.
     
  15. MaxDamage

    MaxDamage Member Full Member

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    Close decision happened in boxing, he lost those fight, don't pretend it didn't happened. Unfortunate, yes, unfair, no.
    P.S: I know Mosley is a steroid cheat, but it didn't change the fact that he has stylistical advantage over Oscar.