Roy Jones: How Good Was He?

Hehe, no arguments there.

 

you all must have forgot

 

I quoted him wrong

Mackie is lying when he says that muscle is hard to take off. As soon as you remove the stress(weights, callisthenics) then you body starts to breakdown the unneeded muscle returning you back to your pre-training form. I have already posted up a quote with citations from sports journals on the topic, but I see you have chosen to ignore it.

 

Anyone who has done any sort of training or weight lifting knows this. Apparently Louden doesn't. Go figure.atsch

 

You could certainly make a case for him being the best fighter of the last 20 years, but that doesn't interest me. If you don't agree then that's fine. You're entitled to your own opinion.

The only points that I wanted to make to you, were that his resume stacks up to anyone else's from the same era who fought in and around his weight classes, and HBO and Roy's team tried to secure bigger fights. There's numerous links to back that up.

At the end of the day, I'll have an objective debate with anyone. You can check my post history. But Rico is a hater pure and simple. He purposely ignores links and trashes all of Roy's accomplishments. So let's not pretend that he's merely questioning aspects of Roy's career.

It's also hilarious how you claim I'm delusional, and say how overrated he is. If anything, he's underrated. If he was 28 years old today, there'd probably be ten threads per day discussing him.

You recognise Roy as a GOOD fighter, and MAYBE great.

Maybe?

 

:rofl

Best post of the thread.

:good

 

:good

 

You absolutely have blamed it on "losing 25 pounds of muscle" then multiple people corrected you and said that is was actually only 5-7 pounds of body weight (water, muscle, fat)

Additionally you keep claiming that Jones was trying to "keep his Heavyweight physique" when indeed this is another lie as if it were true he would have fought Corrie Sanders as they had agreed to and despite that fight falling through he would have stayed at Heavyweight and we all know he didn't. It was a one time handpicked fight. We know this because despite several opportunities to stay at Heavyweight he didn't. This is why it is hard to take you seriously on here you just post opinion when others give you Facts.

Jones has no Chin and that is why his career went into a tailspin. He went from fighting the Grant's, Kelly's, Hall's, Frazier's and Woods to fighting legit contenders like Tarver and Johnson and started getting KOed. Then he went back to fighting handpicked fights with Ajamu, Hanshaw, shot Trinidad then fought Calzaghe and got obliterated and schooled then went back to more handpicked fights with shot Sheika and shot Lacy then lost 3 in a row to Green by embarrassing 1 round KO, Hopkins and then another savage KO to the Russian Popeye looking guy. See the pattern here?

He looked great against the bums like Grant, Kelly, Hall, Frazier, Ajamu, Hanshaw and the shot fighters Trinidad, Lacy, Sheika. When he fought legit contenders he was either savagely KOed or lost wide on the scorecards because he literally has no Plan B in a fight. None.

 

Just curious though how does that work if you go right back into training camp ?,

After Jones went bck down he had to start his camp for Tarver ..Can't tell me that didn't take on a toll on his body no ?

 

This is a very interesting subject, and it appears that nobody was lying, and nobody is wrong.

Me and you are both right, but we're just looking at things from different perspectives that's all.

If you do some more research, it's clear that Roy had the option of taking two roads to get him where he needed to be.


Mackie wasn't lying.

"Muscle is performance weight. As you lose muscle weight you compromise your immune system. I don't like to take on an athlete who has to lose muscle. You compromise your energy. You lose your muscle glycogen."


Now I respect you for posting your link, because we always have great debates, and I respect the information that was detailed in it.

Now from the research that we've both carried out, it appears that:

There's TWO ways of losing muscle.


1. Road A: Detraining.

If you stop lifting weights and take some time out from training, your body will EVENTUALLY change back to your pre-training weight. However, the examples in your link, were over a period of 5 and 7 months.


2. Road B: Catabolism.

Training at a catabolic rate. Carrying out prolonged periods of running, with a low intake of calories, especially protein.


Okay?

Mackie wasn't lying, and your links regarding detraining are 100% accurate. I've found them very interesting and I've read up on the process some more. So thanks.

So nobody is wrong, but it all depends on the athletes CIRCUMSTANCES. Everyone has a different set of circumstances surrounding them.


Now if Roy hadn't have committed himself to a date, then theoretically, yes, he could have taken Road A, and detained to take the weight off over a period of time. But Roy's circumstances were different to the powerlifter's, and the results of detraining can depend on a number of factors, such as: A person's age, weight, and their levels of fitness etc.

We know that Roy chose Road B, because he was constrained by time, and he'd trained for most of his life. A guy who'd trained for most of his life, would never have sat back and done hardly anything in camp. He's said that he ran and didn't each much, and if you do some research, you'll see that other people have also purposely done this to lose muscle, and it can be very tough.


Now it appears to me, that at the time, Roy genuinely didn't realise how difficult it would be. And you can see that in his post fight interview. From all of the information at hand, IMHO, he should never have fought Tarver when he did, and he'd have been better off detraining over time. So thanks again for your great links, and I wish that Roy had chosen that road instead of the one he took. But as we all know, hindsight is a wonderful thing.


:good

 

Y'all*

 

Roy couldn't detrain like the athletes from Zod's link.

It wasn't a viable option at the time.

 

Fair enough.

Sounds like an excuse :think

Sounds like a duck. Not that I blame him. Corrie Sanders had savage power, and I don't expect a natural SMW/LHW to fight HW's.

 

Rico Spadafora,

You need to be locked up for your own safety.

You are crazy.




1. I have NEVER blamed the weight loss for his defeat to Tarver. Roy was in much better shape for the rematch.

2. I have NEVER EVER said that Roy lost 25 pounds of muscle. It's all in your head. Nobody has ever had to correct me.

I'd love for you to try and prove it.

How was it a lie saying that he kept his HW physique?

What are you talking about?

On what grounds? That the Sanders fight didn't happen?

He wanted big money to remain at HW, and after considering it, he went back and wanted more for Sanders. When a big money fight at HW didn't materialise, he took the Tarver fight on HBO's original proposed date.

Now I want to know how you have the audacity to type the following:

This is why it's hard to take you seriously on here when you just post opinion when others give you FACTS

??



Seriously, there's no way you could have typed that with a straight face. Irony doesn't even scratch the surface.

It's ME who gives YOU the FACTS, and it's YOU who IGNORES them, and then follows up with BIASED OPINIONS!

Ruiz was NOT a one time picked opponent. Jim Thomas who was Evander's former attorney, has given a detailed account of how a fight came close to being made in 2003.

He's also stated that Roy pursued him in 1998, but AT THE TIME, Evander respectfully declined, because he felt as though he was in a no win situation.

Now you have completely ignored what Jim Thomas has said, to put your own spin on it.

You've also done the same regarding HBO.

You love highlighting where they publicly criticised Roy, yet you have no interest in when they publicly supported him.

You are a biased hater that only focuses on the negatives.

I have zero respect for you on this topic, because you wouldn't know what the word 'OBJECTIVE' meant, if it smashed you in the face.

How did he just go from fighting the Grant's etc, to fighting legit competition like Tarver and Johnson, when he'd ALREADY fought guys who were either better than, or equal to, those two fighters??

He'd already fought Hopkins, Toney, Griffin, Hill, Reggie, Harding, Woods and Ruiz etc.

Tarver and Johnson were good fighters, but don't try and imply that they were a level above the fighters I've listed, and Roy only lost because he stepped up his competition.

1. At the time he lost to Tarver and Johnson, he'd fought over 50 times, and he was 35.

2. Tarver had lost to Harding, and Johnson had lost to Hopkins, and he then went on to lose to Woods shortly after he'd beaten Roy.

So nobody is buying that sh*t.


Yes, I can see a pattern.

Every one of your posts are complete horse sh*t.

So he didn't look good against Woods, who had three close fights with Johnson?

He didn't look good against Toney, Reggie, Griffin, Hill and Ruiz etc?

Okay. atsch


Come back to me, because I'll school you all day, everyday.

My facts and logic will always conquer your hate.