Roy Jones: How Good Was He?

To be honest, I think that you're being absolutely ridiculous.

Are you seriously telling me, that you don't believe for a second that Roy struggled, just because he told a reporter in mid camp that everything was great?

Seriously?

Again, what was he going to say? A fighter would never let his opponent know that there were any problems.


Two weeks ago, Freddie Roach was telling people how amazing Manny looked. He was super fast and he'd really been hurting him on the pads etc. Then come fight night, many people were baffled at the tactics, and were wondering why there was no animation coming from Freddie in between the rounds. Then fast forward to last week, and Manny was in theatre having an operation on his injured shoulder that had been bothering him for some time. As it turned out, Manny hadn't looked amazing in training, and he'd actually missed sparring sessions etc.


Now let's have a look at what happened when Chad Dawson fought Andre Ward in 2012.

Look at what Chad said in a press conference just a week before the fight:

"Everything's been going great."

"The weight problem was not difficult at all."

"I'll make the weight comfortably."

"This camp, it was great."

http://www.boxinginsider.com/headlines/media-interview-with-andre-ward-chad-dawson/


The aftermath:

"That was pretty good, because we only had to lose 14 pounds in nine weeks," Scully said. "It was 111 degrees that day, we had nine weeks and I remember saying to myself, 'Yeah, with this kind of unbelievably hot weather, and only 14 pounds in nine weeks, this thing [the weight cut] will be a breeze.' But then on Aug. 13, it was still just as hot and we were a month out and he weighed 184. He gained two pounds."

"I have tremendous respect for Andre Ward and I think he might be the best pound-for-pound fighter in the world over Floyd [Mayweather] based on recent performances," Scully said. "He did what he had to do. But in Chad's defense, what we went through to make weight was torture. I remember saying we should just cancel the fight and fight someone else [at light heavyweight]. He spent nine weeks tearing his body down; you don't get that back in 24 hours."

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/boxing/chad-dawson-calls-loss-andre-ward-hbo-set-184031903.html


Now I'm certain that if I did some more research, there'd be many more examples to discuss.


At the end of the day, you're entitled to your opinion. But if you see Roy's post fight interview, it's there for all to see. He looked 100% genuine to me, and he wasn't making excuses because he'd lost, due to the obvious fact that he'd won the fight. Again, you not believing him just because he said everything was great mid camp, seems ridiculous to me.

If you're interested, his post fight interview is at the 1hr, 18 min mark, below:

http://youtu.be/oAQmQLgWUcU


This is Thomas Hauser's article that I'm sure you've seen:

http://www.secondsout.com/columns/thomas-hauser/roy-jones-and-


With regards to Roy making excuses of why he lost to Tarver and Johnson etc, his ego is/was huge, and his pride was hurt. Seriously, how many fighters have you heard say "I was beat tonight, because I don't have it anymore. I'm finished." ? It's very rare. A fighter is normally the last person to see when it's over because they're not looking from the same perspective as what everyone else is looking from.

 

general zod,

I don't dispute that, but you knew what you were doing when you made that list of fighters.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I respect you a lot as a poster. You're a very intelligent guy, and you challenge me hard. I enjoy pitting my wits against you, and we always back up our opinions and facts with links etc. It's good fun. But you are biased. Now if you think that I am, I've honestly no problem with that. But I happen to know for a fact that you are. On a few occasions, you've argued against your own links that you've uploaded. Also, you have contradicted yourself on numerous occasions when it comes to Roy, depending on what mood you're in.

This is a perfect example of what I've just wrote above.

1. A few years ago, you put the Hauser article up when you were debating with another member, to prove that Roy weighed 196 pounds.

2. Again, it's all good fun, but I don't know how you've got the audacity to say that I've had to exaggerate Roy's weight loss, by listing the overall weight.


Just go and reread your own post on this thread, which is post no. 276.

It's a joke.

You have clearly tried to mislead people, by listing the amount of muscle that Roy lost, and then comparing it to everyone else's TOTAL loss.

You have given everybody the impression, that Chris Eubank lost more weight in just 11 days, than what Roy lost in 8 full WEEKS!

Need I go on?

You've purposely listed everyone's total weight loss, except for Roy's.


Also, I don't buy Byrd's weight loss at all. Again, I think it was a misquote. I don't believe he lost 40 pounds in 5 weeks.

I've told you I'm not going to defend that. That's me being objective. I've read numerous interviews where he's been asked about losing 25 pounds of muscle. But instead of correcting them and going into specifics, he tells them of how hard it was. When I read them, I just smile, because many sports writers don't know the specifics of training etc.

 

general zod,

Where did I read that?

Originally, from the link that you uploaded in post no. 156.

You have highlighted AnotherFan's comments where he said that Roy could have lost the weight just fine, by watching episodes of David Letterman, and doing nothing.

That link is also where you've got your figures from. In post no. 170, you have quoted the amount of weight lost by the powerlifter. You have worked out that he lost 7 pounds of muscle in two months, by NOT TRAINING AT ALL. Now theoretically, Roy could have tried that. But he was never going to go to extremes like that, because he was battling against time.

Yes, there's less extremes of detraining. Partial detraining. But Roy didn't do that, and he did not detrain like the guys from your link.

That was my point.

I know this. But again, he was battling against time. He'd painted himself into a corner. Maybe if he'd have had more time, he could have done his usual workouts with a few tweaks, to slowly have gone back down. Or as mentioned, he could have detrained completely and done nothing. But he didn't do either of those things. He instead ate small amounts of food, whilst doing long runs, like what Byrd spoke of from those links that I posted you from a few days ago.

http://www.berkeleywellness.com/fitness/exercise/article/exercise-detraining-effect

http://www.livestrong.com/article/4...rcise-before-your-body-starts-to-lose-muscle/

Why not?

Again, the figures that you have quoted for the powerlifter, were the results of where he had detrained completely, by doing nothing.

So to try and achieve similar results, Roy would had to have fully committed to complete detraining, where he also did nothing.

Again, I'm no expert, but logic tells me that a guy who'd completely detrained, would have lost more muscle than a guy who'd just dropped his workload and partially detrained. Because the guy who'd partially detrained, would have still used his muscles, whereas the guy who'd completely detrained, obviously wouldn't have used his at all. So I believe that although both guys would have lost muscle, the inactive guy would have lost the most. But of course this is only my opinion, and I could well be wrong. But that's honestly how I see it.

 

Again, I meant that Roy didn't commit to detraining completely, like the powerlifter had done, from the link that you uploaded.


Read the link below, that contains information of another method used to lose muscle.

This is the method that Roy carried out.

http://fitnessblackandwhite.com/how-to-lose-muscle/


:good

 

He wasn't just able to beat him, he was able to beat him easily.

That was impressive however you look at it.


:good

 

Great post!

This was obviously a much bigger feat.

:good

 

Yes, although he was awful to watch, he was decent. If not, he'd have been easily by everyone he faced.

I'm going to read my Fitzsimmons book again, it's been years since I read it. He was something else.

:good

 

Ha! I forgot about Norman Stone.

Do you remember in the Roy fight, near the final rounds, when he shouted out to the ref something along the lines of "How much have they paid you, you f*ck!?"

Also, the day before at the weigh in, Roy's trainer Alton Merkerson dropped him.

 

Haha!

Great upload.

"You've got no f*cking b*lls, you f*cking c*ck sucker!!"

He looked crazy with his big hair and his beard.



:good

 

He was spectacticle.

 

Roy Jones is better than Hopkins.

Hopkins' best win by a country mile is Tarver. And RJJ also has a win over Tarver. So that immediately pretty much cancels that out.

And we haven't even started discussing Roy's best wins. Which are against bigger fighters, as oppose to Hopkins' other wins against smaller fighters.

The cream on the cake being that Roy beat Hopkins in the only one of their twi fights which was worth a damn.