How many fighters were truly seen as "best of their generation" in history?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by PugilisticPower, May 13, 2015.


  1. PugilisticPower

    PugilisticPower The Blonde Batman Full Member

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    Originally posted this in general, but probably a better thread here.

    Ignoring all the horse **** that Pacquaio fans are throwing around the forum at the moment, Mayweather Jr can rightfully say he is definitively "the best" in his generation of fighting, the other long serving champions he's either beaten (Pacquaio, Marquez, Mosley, ODLH) or don't have the career/boxing credibility he has ( Klitschko brothers )

    If we consider generation to be 15 year blocks and say Floyd was definitively the best from 2000-2015, how many other fighters would be viewed in the same way?

    2000-2015 - Floyd
    1985-2000 - Tyson / Jones Jr / Lewis
    1970 - 1985 - Tyson / Ali / SRL / Hagler
    1955 - 1970 - Sugar Ray Robinson / Ali / Marciano ?
    1940 - 1955 - Sugar Ray Robinson?
    1925 - 1940 - Joe Louis?
    1910 - 1925 - Jack Johnson

    Not very many eras have a definitive best fighter when you think about it.
     
  2. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Isn't Duran a contender for the '70s?

    But yeah, it's quite rare.
     
  3. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Your way off on some of your timelines.
    To your point on Floyd alot has to do with the fact the heavyweights are dominated by two European brothers. Look at your time line most have a hw in each category. American media doesn't promote an Eastern Euro so ppl overlook their greatness.
     
  4. PugilisticPower

    PugilisticPower The Blonde Batman Full Member

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    The Sugar Ray Robinson era changed that though, that was when people realised the best technician and all round fighter wasn't a HW anymore.

    I'm a huge fan of the Klitchskos, I have both of them H2H beating just about any other heavyweight in history due to their size, strength and abilities, but you can't give Wlad the nod over Floyd because of the knock out losses he suffered against pretty substandard competition. Vitali is a more interesting case, but ultimately Wlad has had the better career.

    I've used 15 year chunks because that's about the length of most careers.
     
  5. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Doesn't work. Depending on when a fighter is born or when his prime period is, they will span separate 15-year chunks. I prefer the idea of coming to some consensus on who had P4P reigns.

    http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=537267

    This way, we don't have to force fighters into arbitrary 15-year blocks.
     
  6. PugilisticPower

    PugilisticPower The Blonde Batman Full Member

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    P4P only takes into account how their year went - in the case of a fighter like Bernard Hopkins, he might have been P4P #1 in 2002 - but no one would ever say he was the best fighter even if we took his career prime.

    I much prefer looking at entire career periods - it gives a more accurate answer as to who the best is.
     
  7. Oxygene2

    Oxygene2 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's too arbitrary. When does a 15-year period start? 1970? 1975? 1978?

    Someone like Floyd has had a very serious and long reign as the P4P #1, so it's clear he is overall the best of his generation, but there will be overlapping generations.
     
  8. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    It's always just been:
    SRR, Ali, SRL, Roy Jones, now Mayweather when talking generations.
     
  9. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Then by your own criteria Mayweather's career is not a patch on Oscar's. No " question " of ducking, avoiding, cherry picking, catchweight demands where DLH is concerned, plenty about Mayweather.
     
  10. LittleRed

    LittleRed Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Seven. There have been seven.
     
  11. Brock Rock

    Brock Rock Member Full Member

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    How does Tyson qualify for 1970-85? Bizzare.

    How is Ezzard Charles not mentioned in the 1940-55 block?

    These lists are rubbish. The 15 year blocks don't work.
     
  12. N_ N___

    N_ N___ Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not Leonard.
     
  13. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think you're kind of starting off with a reach.

    Mayweather wasn't considered the best of his generation from 2000-2015. I'd argue he wasn't even considered in that regard until 2007, when he defeated Oscar De La Hoya and Hatton. And then he took two years off and didn't return until 2009.

    2009-2015 is probably more accurate for Mayweather. Mayweather exploded in 2007. Then he disappeared for a couple years and returned as big as ever.

    When 2000 began, Roy Jones was considered the best ... along with Trinidad. After Hopkins beat Trinidad ... Jones was on top alone, particularly after he beat Ruiz for a heavyweight belt.

    But when Mayweather was fighting the likes of Emanuel Augustus and Jose Luis Castillo at the start of the decade, nobody thought he was the dominant fighter of his generation. Instead, they were complaining that he left 130 before fighting Freitas and Casamayor.
     
  14. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ya ever hear of a chap named Harry Greb ? Or Benny Leonard ?
     
  15. PugilisticPower

    PugilisticPower The Blonde Batman Full Member

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    Ole ODLH, the guy who legitimately faced every great fighter of his generation and the generation before, no question around who he faced.

    Problem is, while DLH might have fought the best (and to be honest, I don't think it applies to Floyd any longer that he didn't fight the best) - DLH has a decidedly average record against HOF fighters.

    Sure, when they first met and fought, DLH had the much better resume of who he had faced, but since then, if you're impartial, you can't really say Floyd hasn't matched that.

    Reality is, Alvarez, Marquez, Pacquaio, DLH, Mosley, Hernandez, Corrales, JLC, Judah, Gatti, Cotto, Hatton are all going to be HoF fighters.

    Guerrero and Maidana are a tier below but are both equally strong fighters.

    The difference between Floyd and pretty much anyone else who has fought as many Ring Ranked Fighters and P4P#10 is the fact that he's done so without the blip on his record.

    Even JLC1, reality is I scored that 114-112 in favour of Floyd. (115-113 without penalties) as did quite a few others, 113-113 was an acceptable score also, (114-114 can't happen, when both fighters have point deductions under the 10 point must)

    So, I'd prefer to look at chunks/proportions of time - anyone trying to dispute that anyone who crossed over with Mayweather in terms of career had a better career than him can't really be taken seriously.