Should Louis have fought more than two black men in his 26 title defenses?

Pastor was more qualified for another title shot than Franklin was at any stage of his career.I just proved Franklin beat just two men who might be called contenders in Simon and Savold ,[very briefly,] Which blows your claim that he ."cleaned out contenders ," sky high!
When you're called and proven to be absolutely wrong, you ignore the proof and that is just one of the things that is so despicable about you.

 

I read it and I also read the part where the reason offered for not fighting Franklin by Louis's managers was that two blacks don't draw! Something that you denied.

BTW that quote has no provenance attached to it , it is an "attributed quote",so it isn't a primary source, therefore you haven't spoiled your record of never providing one! ps
My memorys fine, I remember how to spell you're, and that you told me you were , " 6'3" and hit a ton".

 

No. It isn't.. Because he had more than one noteworthy win. Its been covered.

Hand troubles which didn't stop him from knocking out his next two opponents over the course of the following three months. Had he been offered a shot at Louis FIVE months after beating Simon, something tells me he would have grown another hand if needed.

Still waiting on that source which substantiates that Hurley was willing to pass up the biggest purse of his fighters career. Until you provide such proof, I call BS. I'll take it back when I'm proven wrong which I have no problem doing.

Lack of exposure is one problem I'll grant you. He wasn't a big draw, which is precisely why Simon was used as an attraction to sell tickets for the army fund raiser and Franklin wasn't ( which incidentally is the real reason Franklin never got a shot. ) As for Stature he was the #2 ranked contender in the world only second to Billy Conn who Louis had already beaten and wouldn't fight again until years later.. Big wins? You insist that he had only one.. He KO'd Tony Musto in just two rounds, only five months after he had taken Louis nine... He beat Abe Simon twice within a two year period and fairly close in conjunction to when he fought Louis, and struggled far less in both those fights than Louis did in his first meeting with him.. He beat Eddie Blunt who likewise had beaten Simon, Musto and would beat Buddy Baer two months after losing to Franklin..He beat two young prospects on the rise - one of whom was less than a year away from going on a streak that would earn him passage into the hall of fame..The man was staying active, wining decisively and he sure as hell wasn't record padding. From February of 1940 to February of 1942 he fought 20 times winning 19 with one no contest that should have been ruled as a KO win for Franklin. NOBODY was doing anything like that at the time, and certainly not Gus Dorazio, Buddy Baer, Johnny Paycheck, Tony Musto or Abe freakin' Simon who all got title shots within that general time frame.

Agreed.. AFTER he lost to Pastor and went on that terrible losing streak he was rightfully barred from ever getting a shot.. But If Louis promoter Jacobs had decided to pencil in Franklin in March of 1942 INSTEAD of Simon, making the pastor fight unnecessary, it would have been more than well Justified.

I have never made this claim that Louis personally "ducked" Franklin. I don't think he feared him at all and had they fought likely would have taken him apart early. The fight wasn't made because Louis was committing an act of patriotism for the military by taking the Simon fight and donating the proceeds to the war effort - a fundraiser that a fight with Franklin wouldn't have brought in much.... My only argument is with those who argue that Franklin was never DESERVING or that he was LESS deserving than SIMON... I can personally care less about him being black or Louis's feelings on the matter...

Bivins actually had more like 25 fights and was ranked as the third best light heavyweight in the world in 1941.. A pretty good win actually, but I'm not even claiming that Franklin's winning streak nor case for challenging for the title rests on the shoulders of that victory. You seem to think that it does. And in addition to ignoring the rest of his quality work you've taken added measures to even berate Bivins into being less than what he really was at the time.. Kinda dishonest really, or at the very least reflecting lack of knowledge.

 

Louis fought Roper just after defending against black challenger Lewis. He then defended against number one challenger Tony Galento.

Musto beat Franklin in1939!

McCoy was the first defence after Louis had re-matched Godoy who had given Louis a good fight. McCoy had beaten Melio Bettina 6 months previously .

Do you know Bettina ?
He's the guy that beat black boxers , Jimmy Bivins, Harry Bobo, Eddie Blunt,and Curtess Sheppard.

 

This is the problem with affirmative action, which didnt exist in 1941. Morons can look through rose colored glasses and imagine that underqualified fighters should have been given an opportunity based solely on the color of their skin and no real resume to back it up.

 

Apart from Simon, which victories during Franklin's streak do his credentials for a title fight rest on?

 

Did Louis miss the number one contender in any titular year?

 

My answer is in the body of that post you just copied but I'll repeat it.

- Tony Musto - was KO'd in two rounds by Franklin, just five months after taking Louis 9.

- Eddie Blunt - beat Simon and Musto in the same year he lost to Franklin, then beat buddy Baer two months later.

-Jimmy Bivins - Unranked at heavy, but was the #3 light heavyweight in the world in the same year he lost to Franklin.

- Buddy Millard - Don't know who the hell he was, but for whatever its worth he was 18-0 and lost in two rounds.

- Abe Simon - Already mentioned.

Winning 19 +1 no contest that should have been ruled a knockout, amounts to 20 strait wins with 18 by way of knockout in just two years between February of 1940 to February of 1942. At least five of those wins were quality scalps, or if you prefer to scratch Buddy Millard off for being a nobody, then four is still pretty good..

 

Musto had won 2 of his last 10 fights.
Blunt had a win over Musto. Whoopee who didn't?

He had also lost his previous to Trammel and Simon. So he'd won just 1 out of his last 3.
Bivins was 21 years old and weighing comfortably inside the lhvy limit, he had beaten no one of any note at heavyweight.

That's three non contenders.
Millard ? I'm not even going there!






Yes I am, here is his pre Franklin record.


1940-01-29

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Bob Thomas

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Terre Haute, Indiana, USA W TKO 6 10
1939-12-08

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Webster Epperson

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City Auditorium, Omaha, Nebraska, USA W PTS 6 6
referee: Earl McArthur
1939-11-27

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Andy Newell

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Louisville, Kentucky, USA W KO 3
1939-11-24

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Leroy Beckton

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Indianapolis, Indiana, USA W KO 3
1939-11-20

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Young Harry Wills

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Louisville, Kentucky, USA W PTS 10 10
1939-11-13

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Harvey Hicks Dayton, Ohio, USA W KO 1
1939-11-03

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Jack Garens Indianapolis, Indiana, USA W KO 1
1939-10-16

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Leroy Beckton

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Louisville, Kentucky, USA W KO 2
1939-06-16

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Tommy Eaglin

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Memorial Armory, Port Arthur, Texas, USA W KO 1 6
1939-05-17

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Soldier Hicks

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Dallas, Texas, USA W KO 4
1939-05-09

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Sammy Slaughter

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Olympiad Arena, Houston, Texas, USA W PTS 6 6
The date of this fight is wrongly given as 20 January 1939 in Millard's record, 1944 RRB.
1939-04-28

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Sammy Slaughter

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Dallas, Texas, USA W PTS 5 5
1939-04-03

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Tiger Jack Wright

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City Auditorium, Galveston, Texas, USA W PTS 6 6
1939-02-28

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Tiger Jack Wright

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Dallas, Texas, USA W PTS 6 6
1939-02-15

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Wilbert Bassett

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Port Arthur, Texas, USA W PTS 4 4
1939-02-07

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Tiger Jack Wright

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Olympiad Arena, Houston, Texas, USA W PTS 4 4
The pair were scheduled to fight again at Port Arthur, Tx, the following May 5.
1938-08-29

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Jack High City Auditorium, Galveston, Texas, USA W KO 1 4
Millard returned from St. Louis in early 1938
1938-07-12

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Wilbert Bassett

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Olympiad Arena, Houston, Texas, USA W PTS 4 4





So, Franklin's claim for a title shot rests squarely on his beating a former Louis ko victim , Abe Simon.
I am now firmly of the belief that Franklin does not warrant the pages of discussion he has received here.

 

Don't you know when some one is taking the p*ss out of you ? You MORON!atsch

 

Yep... And had lost 8 out of 14 prior to facing Louis.. Didn't stop him from getting a title shot or lasting 7 rounds longer with the champ than he did with Franklin.

And Simon and Baer - all three of whom got title shots within a short time of losing to Blunt, who subsequently lost to Franklin. Funny how of the four men mentioned ( Franklin, Simon, Baer and Musto ) the only one who DIDN'T get a title shot at Louis was the one who also DIDN'T lose to Blunt

LOL.. if you want to limit the scope to just his last 3 then fine.. But go back a few more and he beat Simon and Redish.. Jump ahead just two months and he beats Baer. Do you really want to start with selective cherry picking? Cuz' if that's the case, then i guess it won't bother you that Simon had only won 2 of his last 6 prior to facing Louis the second time. Or that musto had lost 8 of 14 prior to fighting Louis. or that Al McCoy had lost 6 of his last 10. or that Jack Roper had lost roughly half of the fights that he ever had period.

As I said he was the #3 ranked light heavyweight in the world and being a high ranking light heavyweight never prevented someone from getting a shot at Louis.

Really? Well one of those " Non- contenders" got a title shot, while another one of them was BEATING guys who were getting title shots... The last was a high ranking light heavyweight contender which Louis was not exactly unaccustomed to fighting. I'll make it clear that my goal here is NOT to slander Louis but you seem to be doing a fine job of it yourself without my help.

Fine, scratch him..

Former and future.. That "KO victim" landed in the ring with Louis five months after he got KTFO out by Franklin. And no I still don't believe that it was the only thing that Franklin's claim rested on as no one else in the division was on a better winning streak if even only by comparison.

And its a belief that we both share.. We seem to concur that there were valid reasons why Franklin never got a title shot... If only you and several others would have agreed with me in that Louis fighting Simon and Baer over Franklin was about raising money for charity and not this nonsense about Franklin being passed up over broken hands, future losses in fights that shouldn't have happened in place of a title bout or worst of all that Franklin's credentials just didn't ad up, then I would have gotten a lot more done at work this past week..... Thanks for that...

 

Your opinion of Mann doesn't jive with Louis's.
"he had a hell of a right hand and he did hurt me in the second round,but I dropped him anyway."