Why was tyson ''a hype job'' ?

If you rank him a top 3 all time heavy that is a bit of a hype job.

I have no problem including him in the top 10, though.

 

That may well be your definition of a hype job. Mine is when a fighter doesn't achieve what is expected of them. For instance Ali faced and beat what were considered 3 monsters in Liston, Frazier, and Foreman, against the odds. In other words he backed up the hype, even if said hype come mostly from his own mouth, and that of his camp.

Tyson didn't, often.

 

In defense of those who hyped him:

He arguably did more at a younger age than Louis and Ali (before it unraveled of course).

Looking good so far.

In the same period, he beat more ranked contenders, than some ATGs did in their entire career.

Surely he can't go that wrong now, I mean his best challenger is a cruiserweight who likes to mix it up!

Probably the only thing that could have kept hi out of the top five, or even three, was a collapse as dramatic, unexpected, and complete, as eventually happened!

 

For me tyson as well as roy jones junior are the two guys in history that dont get a fair deal.

tysons demise was simple. He was trained a certain way from youth up. It was that that made him as great as he was. Stupidly got rid of the trainers and stopped training the way he always had. And became an ordinary fighter who was still physically great.

I bet tysons career would have played out a lot differently if he went back or stayed with the same training methods including post prison. Prime for prime not many would have stayed with tyson. As short as it was. Some of the things said about him are downright silly. He was just a bully. Or douglas would have beat him on any nite. Couldnt take it but could give it. Tyson at 22 or 23 was the absolute opposite of these things. If they re was ever anyone that was neither of these things it was tyson. The real truth is people who like to think they know more about boxing than most are the ones throwing these things out there mainly due to the fact there wasnt anybody out there that didnt believe tyson was the real deal back then. It makes them look a bit smarter. Same goes for roy jones. No heavyweight in history throw combinations with the speed and power of tyson in my book. I dont think cus d,mato gets the credit he deserves either while we re at it. And cant believe that some of his system hasnt been replicated in boxing gyms even today. I ve never even heard of anyone copying it and looking at a 22 year old tyson thats baffling imo.

 

Agree.

Mike was about as legit as you can get, he had flaws, as does everyone.

He represented an era in boxing and thats no small achievement.

 

Care to expand on the enlarged part? Perhaps explain exactly why he wasn't merely an on top fighter ( polite way of saying bully ) or why that version of Douglas wouldn't have been able to use his considerable height reach, weight, advantages to beat any version of Tyson?

I'd also be particularly interested in your theory as to how he was the complete opposite of these things at 22 - 23.

 

People underrated Mike's longevity in comparison to other acknowledged greats...

Mike had 3 1/2 years at the top between Berbick and Douglas wherein he took out 10 exclusively high level opponents. He some good wins before that period (Tillis, Green, Frazier) and some good wins after (Ruddock x2, Seldon, Bruno).

But consider that Marciano's run at the top (from Layne to Moore) was about four years, 13 guys (including ham and eggers in Beyshore, Buonvino, Reynolds and a way over the hill Savold), a couple decent wins before and no wins after. Rock got out of the game in his 7th year (equivalent to Tyson's prison sentence) so he didn't have those few good postprime wins but avoided the embarrassment of postprime losses.

Are we really seeing some great divergence in prime performance here?

Similarly, Dempsey really came on after the 1KO loss to Flynn, mixing in a lot of "keep busy fights" with C-raters and guys on huge losing slides (Morris, Pelkey, Dan Flynn) with a couple quality wins. He was able to extend his stay at the top by sitting on the crown and making only 5 successful defenses whilst carefully avoiding his two top challengers.

Again, all things in perspective, I don't see a lot of difference in accomplishment.

Marciano and Dempsey are undeniable greats. But then, so is Tyson.

 

Without going into too much detail. luckily for douglas as good as he was on the nite. That was the worst version of tyson that ever turned up into the ring up to that point. Looked uninterested. Lacked fitness. Looked sluggish. Its clear to see for anyone that isnt anti tyson. You cant compare prime mike tyson or the guy that destroyed berbick with the guy douglas fought. Tyson only had himself to blame for it. But it wasnt the same guy. And it is taking something away from douglas. As much as he deserves the plaudits for his own performance and its a great story. I bet berbick would have fancied his chances against that version of tyson. People trying to use the douglas performance to discredit the hype are really imo kidding themselves. Yes people can and should discredit tyson for turning up how he did but its not an indicator to his ability as a young man coming through.

I m sure tysons problems started exactly one fight after he left his trainers. Thats when it started to unravel. He d stopped training the same way. Show me a fight up until his trainers left where he showed signs of being an on top fighter where he gave up for example. Its like people believe these guys werent fighting him back. And as soon as one did he folded. Its just silly. What seperated tyson was the head movement. The speed. Power. And especially the combination punching. And they were as good as they were for a reason. The training! As soon as he stopped the head movement stopped. The combination punching stopped at that point your looking at two different fighters. This is a twenty year old kid knocking out and destroying the best heavyweights in the world at the time being described as mentally weak. Its laughable really. Later he lost the tools that made him great and thats when he became what people are describing him as. But at 22 23 years old it couldnt be further from the truth. Tyson would have beat both lewis and holyfield in his prime. Holyfield would have been the harder fight. But again both went on to have much better careers than tyson. Which can only really be blamed on himself. But lookibg at the guys life he still achieved much more than anybody thought he ever could have. Btw not a fan of tyson the man through no fault of his own. No kid should have been brought up like that there was no wonder it ended like it did. Although he seems in a much better place nowadays.

 

Tyson was being knocked out by Greg Page and Trevor Berbick (the same guy he destroyed for the title 4 years ago) in sparring in the lead up to the Douglas fight. Thats how far out of it he was.

 

Maybe, but Tyson is definitely one of his top 2 wins then.

Id say its Tyson myself, seeing as how Holyfield talks about this in numerous documentaries.

He always saw Tyson as his main rival, not Bowe. He always mentions how Tyson and him were the best two heavyweights and he needed to beat Tyson (not Bowe) to be recognised as the best.

Eddie Futch (after the first Tyson/Holyfield fight) "Its clear that Holyfield is the best heavyweight of this era, not Mr Tyson"

No mention of Rid**** Bowe.

 

Tyson was apparently a hype job, but both Holyfield and Lewis wanted to cement their legacies by beating him.

 

Mike Tyson a hype job huh... I've heard it all now. Mike Tyson was no hype at all, that's the whole thing right there. He was all business. He destroyed people unlike anything anyone has ever seen before and still haven't seen to this day over 25 years later. No HW fighter in the history of boxing had the combination of speed, KO power in BOTH hands and defense that Tyson had. Go watch the matches of all the greats and then watch Tysons fights. He was destructive and fast about it. When he was having a good night, guys couldn't even hit him with a jab much less a power punch.

Tyson wasn't ready for the money he made, it came too fast and he let Robin Givens and Don King ruin him. They stole him from his team and he went straight down hill. He was living like a rock star and not a humble fighter by the time he fought Bruno in '89. Kevin Rooney kept Mike in line and focussed and made him work. Everyone after Rooney were just "yes" men surrounding him letting him do what he wants. That was a recipe for disaster for a street kid that was making hundreds of millions.

Make no mistake about it though, Mike Tyson in 1985-1988 beats any HW in history.

Edit: I see people mention the greats from the 30's and so on. One thing to remember is those guys were wearing 6oz and later 8oz gloves in the ring. Tyson wore 10oz gloves and still destroyed people in a brutal manner. He may have killed someone wearing 6oz or 8oz gloves. He hit Andrew Golota so hard that he broke his cheek bone, gave him a concussion, caused bleeding in his brain and herniated his disk. Golota quit on the stool at the end of the second round and was taken to the ER. That's not hype lol.

 

Yet in 1990 the indistructable elderly Tyson was destroyed by a fat featherfisted journeyman.... :rofl

 

What's your point? We are talking about professional fighters. Mike Tyson had made over 100 million and was living like a rock star, didn't even bother training for Douglas. he was 250 lbs just a few weeks before the fight. You have to read between the lines my friend. Tyson was very out of shape vs Bruno in 1989, the first fight he had after leaving his old camp/Kevin Rooney and it was obvious already. Mike Tyson needed a hard nose like Rooney to make him work hard and stay focused. It's hard to brutalize yourself in the gym when you're making more money than Michael Jordan and are a super star hanging in the celebrity circle. In case you didnt know, Mike Tyson was projected to become the first billionaire sports figure and was the highest paid sports figure in the late 80's and early 90's. It's simple really, Mike Tyson lost focus and was led astray. Douglas never would have touched the Mike Tyson of 1985-1988, hard cold fact.

 

If you keep repeating that bull**** you might actually believe it!! Facts are Tyson was in peak condition and in the prime of his life against Douglas. Trouble is Douglas didn't follow the script and gave Tyson the biggest drubbing of his career, Douglas would have beaten Tyson at any age, FACT!!