Isn't Defense Just Avoiding Fighting?

Not all kinds of defense is on trial here, at least not for me.

When a fighter can stand his ground yet avoid getting hit cleanly - i.e: James Toney, I find that to be quite entertaining.

It's the excessive clinching and constant backwards fighting that I find mundane and tedious at times.

To me, your basketball 'block shot' an.alogy isn't an example of this kind of defense but rather an exciting form of resistance because it's an aggressive maneuver.

An example of what I think is a mundane and tedious form of defense in basketball would be the 'hack a shaq' style where you intentionally send a poor FT shooter to the line.

Let me ask you this, and granted it's not a good comparison, but do you enjoy low scoring basketball games? say 70 - 65?

How 'bout a 6 - 0 football game in which the team(s) game plan is to play ball control offense and willingly punt to pin the other team back every series?

The NBA and NFL certainly don't enjoy these kind of outcomes which is precisely why they've implemented rule changes over the years to evoke a more offensive style of play.

I try not to blame boxers too much for being overly defensive because they are just playing by the rules of the sport. I think it's up to the sport of boxing to adjust their rules to create the desirable product that the people want to see.

 

Rugby Union had a similar reviewing in the 00's when England won the world cup....they considered changing the scoring system of kicked goals due to Jonny Wilkinson's goal kicking ability. The English rugby team essentially built their playing style round his kicking and took advantage of it...everything they did was in the rule book but it was considered very negative as it allowed them to win games even when they were being outplayed....It never happened though as the general consensus was that changing the sports rules because of one man was fking ludicrous and everyone should just stop crying about it and get better.

 

No, the ****ogy you are looking for in basketball is where teams used to do a lot of running and passing to maintain control of the ball once they had a lead. This lead to low scores and consequently lower attendance and lower viewing numbers. The league instituted a shot clock where if the team didn't shoot the ball after a certain number of seconds they would lose it to their opponent, sort of like Downs in football.

Also, for baseball normal stalling tactics would be doing things like frequently changing pitchers, stepping out of the box to take practice swings or adjust equipment, managers arguing with umpires, pitchers staring down the plate, pitchers repeatedly throwing the ball to bases with runners on them, and things of that nature. Major League Baseball has recently been trying to institute new rules to prevent this sort of thing like time limits for how long it takes to replace a pitcher to prevent games going on for hours and fans leaving because they have to go to work in the morning. Stalling tactics in baseball often work more to prevent a loss than to gain an advantage since the rules state that a game with less than 5 innings wouldn't count. So if you are losing bad early you can stall. This used to work best for night games before stadiums got lighting, but it still works in the case of bad weather like rain or snow.

I'm sure there are other examples I could draw from major popular sports, but I'm really only interested in boxing, and my point is that other sports regularly adopt rules to prevent stalling.

 

At the end the day a fighter can only do what you allow them to do.
If a fighter is clinching you - push him off or take a step back so he cant or you can do the same exact thing back to him.

If a fighter is moving, cut off the ring. People like to say "fighter A was running" and I say "Where did he run to? Out of the ring? Out of the arena?"

You cant be upset because the fighter you are backing lacks the skills to stop these things because they can be stopped.

 

HALLELUJAH!!! HALLELUJAH! ^ this /end thread now

 

Excellent post. I agree completely. People love James Toney's defense because he combines it with reasonable offense and doesn't use it to stall the action. Doesn't James Toney hold records for most punches landing in a fight? I think he landed 400 punches in two or three of his fights.

Ah, just looked it up, he landed 400 plus punches in 4 championship fights against Glen Wolfe, Tony Thornton, Prince Charles Williams, and Iran Barkley, an average of 45 punches landed per round.

 

I know nothing about rugby but to your point, if there was some sort of isolated scenario that clearly is regarded at some sort of aberration, I then I would agree that changing an otherwise flawless system (if that's what your suggesting that the system is otherwise without flaws) would be overly reactive and groundless.

Boxing however has some flaws that extend beyond one example.

 

:thumbsup

"Lights Out" was a beautiful boxer. : pause : lol

 

Great post.

 

Unless it's Ricardo Mayorga, no one is "allowing" another fighter to punch him in the face.

Likewise when it comes to getting clinched.

There are times where fighter "A" has got fighter "B" in a headlock or is grabbing and holding their arms. Fighter "B" isn't "allowing" that to happen as much as fighter "A" is imposing his way of fighting on him.

There's a reason why refs are needed.

Same can be said about cutting off the ring.

Fighter "A" may not be capable of cutting off fighter "B" because of his inferior footwork. He's not "allowing" his target to escape, but rather is incapable of stopping it from happening.

 

Ward beats the hell out of his opponents and so does Rigo...

Ward can be a bit clinchy at times, but he usually spends a lot of time fighting.

 

dealdeal

 

Speaking of Toney's high workrate, I think that might be why people don't mind and actually enjoy his defensive style as opposed to Ward, Mayweather, Rigondeaux, or Hopkins.

The average super middleweight throws 54.3 punches a round. Andre Ward has a reputation as a boring boxer because against Dawson he threw 41.8, against Froch he threw 47.8, against Bika he averaged 36.2. For comparison purposes Froch throws 68 punches a round. Hopkins throws about 35-40 punches a round when the light heavyweight average is 54. Mayweather averages throwing 40 punches per round at welterweight and threw 50 a round at 130. By way of comparison, Jesus Soto Karass threw 110 punches a round against Andre Berto. The Welterweight average is 58.7, Maidana throws 66, and Manny Pacquiao throws 69.4. Rigondeaux throws 40.3 punches a round in a division where the average is 60.3. Busier fights are generally more exciting fights for fans.

 

I agree with your point. The thing is with using examples or ****ogies from other sports is that boxing is so subjective...unlike, for example, tennis where the ball is either in our out.