ChokeLab How do you explain Johansson losing 2 out of 3 to Patterson ...and Patterson getting clobbered in 1 round in both fights with liston?
One thing you can bet the farm on is that Ingo would be the one backing up here. Liston's Achilles heel was the inability to cut off the ring ,so it would go a few rounds but then ,after a few thumps to the body had slowed the Swede to a walk ,Liston would corner him and it would be "goodnight nurse".
Yeah, Fury could certainly KO the past prime version of Tyson that Williams KO'd. That's irrelevant though. we are talking about johansson and liston and leotis martin. Johannson's best punch/combo without a doubt was the 1-2. Liston is vulnerable to this kind of punch. Like I said i'd make Liston the favorite, but if you think that Johannson could not KO Liston with a single shot, any time during the fight, then perhaps you should get your glasses checked. Marty Marshall, Ali, and Leotis Martin all dropped Liston, yet you think it is somehow impossible for Johannson ( a recognized & lethal 1 shot puncher) to knock down Liston, or worse, knock him out!
"Somehow impossble"??? No, I don't think that. How you've come to that conclusion based upon what I wrote, I have no idea. What you describe above is exactly the chance I have given him: As you missed it: Johansson has a puncher's chance the specific chances of which will be influenced by your opinion on Liston's chin.
that's all well and good, but you acted like it's blasphemous to compare Martin to Johannson, when Johannson's money punch is the same punch that effectively ended Liston's career. Prime, past prime, etc, Martin wasn't fit to shine Johannson's shoes. if Johannson can consistently connect and time his right hand then it's only a matter of time till he cracks Liston's jaw. Or the flip side of the coin is that Johannson gets KO'd very early and gets overpowered by Liston.. in order for Liston to do that he would leave himself open, and would possibly pay the price. it entirely depends on if you think Liston can take Ingo's Bingo. That is the key component of this fight.
Liston and Ingo did not have ATG chins. To be fair to Liston he got knocked out only late in his career but before that we have the Ali and Marshall knock downs to go on. ALI and Marshall were not ATG hitters. With ingo he lost to one guy. We will never know if ingo had decent durability before the first shattering KO loss to Floyd but there was not much durability after it. Certainly that was an ATG knockout after getting up from another huge blow that would flatten many fighters. Ingo had too short a career really. Accepting (with hindsight) that Liston was the better fighter I still think it could be a question of who hits whom first. A real 50-50 shoot out.
No, I didn't do that either. I acted like it's silly to extrapolate a KO loss a fighter has when way past prime and behave like it is a factor in a prime-for-prime match up. Which it is.
No , McGrain pointed out that Liston was an ancient relic when Leotis Martin kod him, Trouble was that he didn't explain it clearly enough for you.
Obviously I would expect Liston to win, but just maybe Johansen could have thrown him a bit of a curve ball here. Johansen would have been looking to counter Liston, his right was faster, and I think he would have made the fight interesting.
Fighters don't suddenly develop a cr ap chin when they are past prime. They just get hit more often, and people find out they didn't have a great chin in the first place.
Liston had a great chin he took bombs off of massive big punchers C Williams Nino Valdes Mike Dejohn Liston is one of the best ever.
That a two dimensional triangle to determine a winner in boxing is as sound as a three dimensional triangle is as a business model.
Was Listons chin really that much better? Ingo suffered one horrible knockout and was never the same.