What would Tyson's career look like if he had more discipline?

I think when he did everything he was supposed to do and had the right people around him he would have beaten Douglas.. Beyond that its a question mark. As already mentioned, his style didn't make for a long prime. And he was a comparatively smaller man in a division where the contestants were getting bigger each year. Had he stayed on track, did what he had to do and avoided prison he would have had a better career than he did.. But I'm not sold on the idea of him going on to having a Joe Louis like reign where he ruled forever.

 

Tyson in his prime was 1 of the best heavyweights ever

If he had kept the discipline to extend his prime further he could have had a great reign

Even after 3 years in jail he was still better then most of the 90's heavies

After 1988 he didn't train properly

Sorry my opinion dosen't match yours but those are the breaks

 

What makes you come to that conclusion? He was destroyed by a journeyman at the ripe old age of 23, where's the evidence that he didn't train properly after 88?

 

A journeyman who had been a ranked contender for about four years

Well if you had picked up a newspaper once in a while in the late 80's you'd read about him being out until 3 AM in the morning getting into a fist fight with a former opponent, going through an ugly divorce, crashing a car, losing a relative of his immediate family about every other year, getting decked in sparring by mediocrities and sleeping with prostitutes along with just about every member of his original team who got him to the top being fired by Don King.. I'd say that's enough to cause someone to lose focus, even if they happen to be doing their basic roadwork.

 

Oh right so because he was out till 3 AM one night that's curtains for his career? Ali was partying the night before he fought Norton, I don't see that being used as an excuse much.. plenty of fighters get involved in fist fights with opponents, remember Larry Holmes pretending to be Superman against Berbick?

Since when as getting a divorce or crashing a car been linked to not training properly? Tyson was ****ing dirty *****s throughout his career, this didn't suddenly happen after 88. Maybe he got decked in sparring because he was in the ring with the big hitting Greg Page who wanted to prove a point with the so called Worlds Baddest Man...

All I see is excuses, excuses excuses.... :roll:

 

Everybody agrees his dicipline disappeared after the Spinks fight

Your obviously a Tyson hater and therefore it's pointless for me to conversate with you any further

 

No Tyson fanatics cling to that reason as an excuse for his one sided destruction by the hands of Douglas. I'm no Tyson hater, in fact I'm a massive fan of Tyson, I love his style and the excitement he brought was unreal. What I can't stand is the stupid fanatics who use every excuse under the sun for his losses.

 

Yes one night that we KNOW of and for obvious reasons. But I think there was a behavior pattern developing there.

And how good did he look?

Did Holmes bust his hand on Berbick's face? Was Holmes defending a title at the time?

A divorce is a major life disruption.. Especially when settling an estate worth millions of dollars. The car crash was intentional and kinda gave insight to what his destructive frame of mind was like at the time.

Not even sure what's being said here.

He had been sparring with Page for sometime as well as Oliver McCall. They never troubled him before. And more and more reports of him showing up late for camp or blowing off training on a given day were accumulating near the time of the Douglas fight..

Most of these things were his own fault. But that doesn't erase the fact that his career had taken a turn for the worse. If you think that this was the same dedicated fighter who we saw from Berbick to Spinks then I'd sure as hell like to hear how and why.

 

Even Don King , who was part of the problem, admits Tyson was ill prepared for Douglas and took him lightly. He also has said Douglas was the opposite in his approach to the fight. There are numerous articles where he is quoted talking about the issue.

 

Don King sticking up for Tyson?? You've got to be kidding me....

 

It must be nice for Tyson detractors to think they can use Buster Douglas as a reason for why Barbados Joe Walcott might have beaten him.. But things are obviously a bit more complicated than that..

 

Well, much of that happened even before the Spinks fight and I have yet to see even Tyson fans claim he was in poor shape already then.

There's plenty of turmoil in Floyd's life as well, but the man is as dedicated in his training as any fighter ever.

But I readily accept that he wasn't optimally prepared for Douglas, but it's still a big "if" to say that better preparation would have made him turn a fight where he was being well beaten for the duration into a win. Not necessarily untrue, but it calls for a quite a bit of speculation.

 

no it didn't. Almost everything I listed occurred between August of 1988 onward following the spinks fight.

Floyd wasn't 23 years old when his life started going to hell outside the ring. Kinda makes a difference.

Well naturally.. Could Larry Holmes have beaten Tyson at his best? It's just as speculative.

 

There are even articles before the Tony Tucker fight saying Tyson was out late at night, arguing with Rooney, and was skipping training camp.

These types of excuses are a dime a dozen.
Most of the great fighters were party animals for at least parts of their prime careers. Or else were going through other kinds of 'turmoil'.

Besides, most of Tyson's prime opponents had severe troubles in their lives outside the ring.

Drugs, feuds with promoters, bad divorces, absent trainers, injury ... you name it.

 

The car accident and the Green fight happened the months after the Spinks fight. But the relationship with Givens, that many thought distractive for him, had started before. Either you believe his life took a sharp turn just after that fight or you believe that those were just symptoms of something already going on. That Mike got in trouble already during his time with Cus, some of it ending up in a famous altercation with Atlas, and overall common sense lends weight to the latter.

No, not really, I'd say. Floyd has managed to keep focussed on his training, just like a young Ali did when his life was in turmoil with a divorce, Black Muslim in fighting and machination and an impending exile and jail sentence. It's not an at all given that Tyson wouldn't.

Holmes was 38, coming off inactivity and had been in clear decline for at least 3-4 years. Long before the Tyson fight and before even losing to Spinks he had had close fights with for example a green Williams, whom Tyson dispatched in one round prior to Douglas.