Did Marciano Have the Flu when he Fought Henri & Applegate?

when do you believe Moore got old enough to be considered not great anymore? I would say 1959 although he looked absolutely incredible in the durrelle rematch...he turned back the clocks with that performance. He looked so fast and sharp that night.

 

Just re watched the first round of both fights. I did not notice any difference significant difference in speed and mobility. The key word is significant which you used. I think their is a slight difference in mobility moore moved slightly better in 51, key word slightly. Handspeed was the exact same

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_pPfPUQopfg
Watch 4:20 that upper body movement darting out of range by moore is the exact same movement he uses in 51.


I re watched moore vs Valdes in 53 Johnson in 54. No difference between that version and 55 vs Marciano

I watched moore in 58, age has started to catch up with him at this point. His body is softer and flabbier, not the chiseled 51-55 version. His handspeed and legs look slower, reactions slower

 

Yes. Although I'm Ron Richard fights you can see Moore still had not fully developed his defense and punching skills, he looked wild. He Improved as a fighter later on.

My opinion is moores prime was 1947-1955. He really grew into his own in 47, I think he peaked in 51-52. After 52 he started a slight decline, 55 was the last year he was still great. At the end of 56 against patterson his body looked softer, and by 58 he had grown a belly. He had one last hurrah and 59 where he looked unbelievable against durrelle in the rematch , I don't know who was in the ring that night but it looked like young archie

 

I forget Rocky even fought him. What happened?

Are you thinking of the Reynolds knockout?

 

"He was only champion in NY, he had been stripped of his title by other bodies for not defending against Johnson."

This is not factually accurate. Going into 1960, Moore was universally recognized, I believe.

Sports Illustrated had an article on Moore and his losing his championship recognition in the March 14, 1960 issue. It is on-line but I don't know how to bring it over. Main points--

1--NBA withdraws recognition of Moore on February 14, 1960 for not defending against Johnson.

2--According to Martin Kane, who wrote the SI article, "The decision to strip Archie of his title was patently a political sop to Pennsylvania."

3--The reason is that Pennsylvania had not had a big fight in years because their commission had enlisted in an anti-mobster campaign. This led to a boycott of the state, and their commission was under pressure to bring in a big match.

4--The NBA's action led to a storm of protest, as Moore had defended the previous August, sooner than most of the champs of the era. I am not sure it was cause and effect, but California withdrew from the NBA, a terrific loss.

5--When Kearns announced that negotiations were under way for a defense against Erich Schoppner, the NBA withdrew their withdrawal and once more recognized Moore as champion.

Moore would lose NBA recognition sometime late in 1960. I haven't been able to find out just when,

Johnson won NBA recognition on February 7, 1961 when he knocked out Jesse Bowdry.

Moore continued to be recognized by New York, Massachusetts, California, and The Ring Magazine. I imagine he was still recognized by most foreign commissions, but don't know for certain. New York did not withdraw recognition until 1962. California until 1963.

The big boxing states in the US were New York and California, so the NBA was somewhat of a hollow shell, with all sorts of rural and sp****ly populated states making up the membership.

 

*I just have a question I am curious about and perhaps you know.

When Moore defended against Guilio Rinaldi in 1961, was this recognized as a title fight by the BBBC or the EBU?

Or were they recognizing Johnson by that time?

This is not a question that has any impact on the thread--just something I am curious about.