Harry Wills record between 1916 and 1926

The bottom line is that without film of a young Wills, it is very difficult to make a reasonable judgement. Willard was not Wills or close to him. Neither, obviously, were Fulton or Firpo. Langford might or might not have been close to Dempsey, though, and Wills defeating him certainly leaves the door open to Wills also defeating Dempsey. The racism of the time screwed Wills, and perhaps even Dempsey in some ways, and certainly leaves us "vintage" boxing fans frustrated.

 

He beat hall of famers sam langford and joe jenette in 1913-1914. Langford and Jenette were pretty close to their primes in these years, both hall of famers. I also must add Kid Norfolk is hall of fame talent, and wills destroyed him. Norfolk beat harry greb.

 

btw guys, there is film in 1924 Harry Wills vs Bartley Madden, wills was not competley shot then, coming off a good win over firpo.

 

Floored three times? Since when? What was the third time?

 

He was knocked down right at the beginning for a seven count although most films are spliced at this point, but you can see his knee touch. He later suffers a flash knockdown in which his glove touches the canvas but the referee does not stop the action. The third is when he is knocked out of the ring.

 

Why?

 

Though Dempsey was down for about a 3 count. I dont think it was 7.

 

Actually, I don't know. Bert Sugar claims that he saw an unspliced film in South America that showed Dempsey taking a 7 count. Sugar is not always, or even most of the time, a reliable source, but he is a strong Dempsey supporter. On my film, Dempsey definitely goes down to one knee following a Firpo right with an immediate splice to a clinch.
Dempsey later said he remembered almost nothing of the first round after that right hand, coming to with Kearns talking to him in the corner. This also seems BS as Dempsey gave vivid and detailed accounts of his actions when he was knocked out of the ring.

 

There is? I'd like to see it. Now this is good information. Thanks for the update.

 

Yes, I think the Holmes and Lewis analogies are good. Wills was a very big man with skills. How skilled he was remains impossible to say without film.
Wills refereed an exhibition between Johnson and Jeannette in the 1940's. He was much bigger than Johnson. His height used to be given as 6' 4" and that height might be accurate off the film.

 

That's rather strange. So no one knows how long he was really down for?

 

I really wish people would stop throwing out the line "knocked out of the ring" like it means something. It was a half-shove that put him through the ropes, it's not as if Firpo hit with a punch so hard that the power alone carried him out of the ring. People with an agenda against Dempsey try to make it out to be more than it was.

 

Once in the first 5 seconds of the fight demsey charged in firpo caught him with a right dropping him to a knee. Thats 1. 2nd time firpo gets up from knockdown catches dempsey with a big right hand making dempseys gloves touch for a knockdown. thats 2. 3rd time firpo knocks dempsey out of the ring. thats 3.