Sonny Liston has an underrated Resume

Liston was great, no doubt about that. The only thing that stains his resume are his losses to Ali, especially the second one.

 

:rofl

 

That was an old Liston. Young Liston would have caught Clay eventually

 

I wouldn't bet against Liston in a head-to-head with anyone. I don't care who. That includes a so called prime Ali.

 

Liston is considered past prime against Ali because he lost, simple as that.
If he was past prime he wouldn't be such a massive favorite.

 

The 1958-1960 Liston was a different kettle of fish altogether from that past it sad sack that twice lost to Ali.

 

The OP makes a good case.

Liston has a good resume.

The one comment I take issue with is the description of Folley, Machen, and Williams as

"head to head monsters"

All three failed against the top men thoughout their careers.

Of course, one of the top men was Liston. But Terrell defeated all three.

Machen also lost to Johansson, Johnson, and Patterson.

Folley didn't fight the above three, but his record is speckled with losses to lesser contenders like Cooper, Lavorante, and Jones.

These men were top contenders of the era, but "monsters" strikes me as exaggeration.

 

Yes, his first fight with Ali was like 5 or 6 months after his second destruction of Patterson.

That's a fast fall from prime to washed up.

But his resume up to the point of the Ali fights rates very highly.

 

No doubt Sonny was a great fighter and it is commendable that he achieved what he did with just 34 fights in nine years but the fact remains that Machen, Folley and Harris were the only contenders Sonny beat before he became champion that were worth anything at the time he fought them. After Sonny was champion beating Henry Clark who was also a good win.

The others were really erratic fringe guys not worth any thing at that time. he beat them but since every other contender was beating them too I can't think what their value actually is towards a resume. Certainly no disgrace, but nobody bothers to mention these kinds of scalps that all champions beat on the way up.

For example, at the same stage ALI beat Alex Miteff, Lavorante and Billy Daniels ..and nobody really brings them up.

It's really the world championship level fights that count. Liston beat Floyd better than anyone. Nobody can take that from him.

 

A lot depends on how one views Liston's Ali fights.
I think they both had an odor to them.
I realize that everyone doesn't agree with this.

Even so, if Liston was ready to take a dive on command, it reflects on his legacy but not as far as ability is concerned.

 

There was no way that the light tap suffered by Liston in 1965 could have led to a knockout. He survived real bombs by Cleveland Williams and shrugged them off like rain water....the two Ali fights stunk to high heaven.

 

I think the first one was on the level. Liston took a beating because it was years since he'd gone more than a few rounds. By then he was rusty and out of his depth.

Second Ali fight was a farce. A legitimate knock down ruined entirely by bad officiating. Sonny never got a count.iston never had a chance either. ALI was far too sharp and Sonny had no appetite for a fight that evening.

 

Sigh, so many stupid people on this thread.

I find it funny you don't mention Sonny Liston cheated against some of his opponents. Cheating tarnished his boxing career.