We all know that we were robbed of a "true" prime Ali; therefore, we are generally left with these two versions of Ali. But which Ali do you think was greater head-to-head? For this fight, let's say that the pre-exile Ali is the 1966 one who beat Williams (generally thought to be pre-exile Ali's greatest performance), and the post-exile Ali is the 1974 one who beat Frazier and Foreman (imo a very good, if not the best, version of post-exile Ali, though feel free to disagree and change this version if necessary). So we have perhaps the quickest heavyweight ever in a pre-exile Ali vs. a slower yet smarter and stronger post-exile Ali. Who do you have winning?
Preposterous thread. 60's Ali was clearly superior than 70's Ali. The obvious is the obvious. The only thing I would give 70's Ali over 60's Ali is the toughness. 70's Ali was tougher but 60's Ali was faster and stronger.
I, personally, wouldn't go that far (unless you're simply being hyperbolic, though, if I am remembering correctly, you do seem to always be "melodramatic" in your posts). Regardless, I still think it's a fun match-up. True, I think that pre-exile Ali has some good advantages that would make him a favorite to many, but for various reasons, some of which you have stated, I wouldn't make him a clear and obvious favorite. This is still a fairly young Ali whom we are talking about. He's not as strong, not as mature, and not as smart. And it's much easier to put him on the canvas, as Cooper demonstrated. A post-exile Ali is no Patterson, Cooper, Moore, or Liston. And a post-exile Ali always found a way to win, so I wouldn't count him out so quickly. 60's Ali was stronger? Well, I mostly disagree. It's still a bit difficult for me to see a clear winner, but I can understand and agree with a pre-exile Ali winning. I just don't think that it would be as "easy" as you think. Well, even if you think it's so obvious, you never really got around to telling me exactly how a pre-exile Ali would win and in what fashion, so I'm not exactly sure how much we agree.
It's very difficult for me to envision any hwt even post 1970 Ali himself overcoming the speed of pre 1970 prime Ali. Ali just too quick. His legs were the best the game ever saw and they constantly would maneuver him out of trouble.
It's true because no other heavyweight in history would beat that Ali. He was stronger in the 60's. Ali was slimmer and in the best shape of his life. Ali stated in the 2nd Liston fight he was in such good shape that it even surprised himself. I'm not talking about Ali when he was known as Cassius Clay in the early 60's. I'm talking about Ali from the mid to late 60's. That's when he was at the height of his powers. Yes, he was stronger. Why? It's simple really. 60's Ali had deceptive power. He could knock you down while moving backwards. 60's Ali also had stronger legs which enabled him to be on his toes for 15 rounds. 60's Ali truly did float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. The same could not be said about 70's Ali.
Ali himself said young Ali would have won. He said he would have tried to fight in spurts and knock young Ali out but felt that he was better pre exile. Patterson and Chuvalo (both fought pre and post exile Ali) both said he was better pre 70 as did D'Mato.
Hmm, a good and convincing post. You are also right. There is a distinct difference between a 60s Clay and a 60s Ali. I think that I was conflating the two?
Yes, this seems to be the well-warranted consensus. Well, I'm convinced. Interesting, I never knew this. Thanks for the good bit of knowledge.
Well, let's look a little closer. In the 60's he was dropped by Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper... left hooks to the jaw both times. He also struggled with Doug Jones. He beat Liston twice... who really didn't do much after his fights with Ali. He beat Patterson (blown up LHW), Chuvalo (a human punching bag), Folley (solid contender but didn't do anything special, small HW, and wasn't the most durable), Terrell (durable, not much power, not very active), Williams sucked! In the 70's he faced Quarry x2, Bonavena, Frazier x3, Norton x3, Foreman, Lyle, Young, Shavers, Bugner x2, and others. He came in out of shape a few times in the 70's but his best 70's version compared to his best 60's version is a toss up if you ask me. I'm talking about a pre- "thrilla" Ali
Why are you bringing the early 60's into this? I'm talking about Ali from the mid to late 60's. That's when he was at his best. In the early 60's he was really skinny and his chin was questionable. From the mid to late 60's, Ali seemed bigger and was in his best shape. What you fail to realise is Ali toyed with all the fighters you mentioned in the 60's. He toyed with Liston, Patterson, Chuvalo, Folley, Terrell, and Williams.
