Sonny Liston has an underrated Resume

Of course, that's not impossible.

But you're trying to say that the win isn't as important/significant a win as some other guys you've named. What i've said to you, several times, and you've failed to engage with, is that Sonny Liston the professional heavyweight champion disagrees with you. He thinks you're wrong. You are absolutely determined - obsessed, I would say - with downgrading a fighter that Liston himself would include with the names you mention.

Now, it could be that you know better than Liston. That's not impossible. You do claim to be an ex-professional yourself. Maybe you know better than Liston who the best fighters he met were.

But, to be frank, it's incredibly unlikely.

 

Yes, I've already acknowledged this possibility:

If you avoid repeating yourself, I, too, can avoid repeating myself.

There's no point in trying to redact this to punching power, or comparing Williams' punching power to Retzlaff. Liston said that Williams was one of his toughest fighters and named Williams one of his toughest opponents. In boxing.

You replied to this post:

With this remark:

What I am saying to you, now with painstaking care because as usual you've set out to avoid the pertinent point, is that Liston disagrees with you. Read that again: LISTON DISAGREES WITH YOU. Liston considers Williams absolutely on a par with Harris, Folley and Machen. The evidence you have submitted that Liston is wrong amounts to 0. Rather you are submitting an evidence free supposition that Williams "got better" which is neither here nor there.

And that is what i'm saying to you in a nutshell.

 

Yes, it is possible that Harris, "on the ground" and "at the time" had more "value". But Liston says Williams was better than Harris when he fought them both. As long as you aren't saying that your didactic doesn't overwrite testimony of the fighter, ok.

No, it's denoted by how Williams was perceived. It is possible for an unseasoned prospect to carry more cache than a ranked fighter. For example, Kevin Johnson would have gained more cache and money beating Joshua than Steve Cunningham.

Was this the case with Williams? Not necessarily. But certainly your rigid approach to the case is telling.

This is the point exactly. A better fighter can be lower ranked. You are saying that Williams wasn't "worth anything" as a win. That is not necessarily true. Again, when Ali beat the shot Williams, Williams was top five. According to you, Ali beat the "more proven" the version that was "worth more". That is BS, it's nonsense.

No perhaps; he proved to Liston that he was one of the best fighters in the division. I suspect he knows better than you.

Personally, I "credit" Liston about as much or more for beating Williams than beating Harris. Williams can be hugely overrated (appearing in top 100 heavyweight lists and stuff) but you have identified him as a way to underrate Liston's resume, and clearly set out to underrate him.