Michael Katsidis all-time p4p ranking in Australia

Rock, you're solid on all the names you mentioned going in about him? Including the non-titlists and short-reigning ones?

I think we can safely presume he's going to have to be ranked on whatever has been done so far, as he likely doesn't have anything in his future to elevate his standing even though he's still "active".

 

Eh, not quite as you make out. After the first dozen or so there are lots of guys you could argue for being ahead of Kat, but precious few on whom you couldn't possibly create any wiggle room to let him by.

Rose, Famechon, Carruthers, Fenech, Mundine Sr. & Jr., Tszyu, Bika, Darchinyan, Harding, Geale, Soliman, Richards, and Sands (wins over Bobo Olson x2, **** Turpin via KO1, a rare knockout victory over The Alabama Kid...) still leaves him a slot @ #15 - and honestly some of those are no sure thing over him. Soliman, for instance? Darchinyan? Harding? All borderline.

Does a guy like Mattioli really belong firmly above Katsidis? :conf

Sure, he wore the green belt @ 154lb and squeezed a couple of defenses in, and was among the few to ever KO Backus, and beat some nice domestic opposition - but overall his résumé is hardly special in a manner that's night and day with having defeated the likes of Chavez, Mitchell, Amonsot, Escobedo and Earl (and competitive losses to JMM, Burns, Casa, and especially Torito Diaz). They are neck and neck really, in terms of quality.

Then you have all the pioneers & old-timers in the ABNHOF, who are difficult to rate era vs. era, tbh. Blokes like Carroll and Darcy - how good was their (mostly fellow Australian) competition, really?

...and you have the conundrum of where to draw the line as to what constitutes having been a true Australian fighter, giving how much "camping out" down under has been done by various boxers - like Joe Bugner, whom the UK and Oz like to claim with equal fervor. Need you have spent most of your career based there? Nearly all of it? Learned the craft there? Born there?

You could arguably include the great Peter Jackson, or not - or you could be as inclusive as trawling up the supremely underrated mega-journeyman The Alabama Kid.

Kind of a tough assignment, looking at the historical picture of Australian boxing in a p4p all time great sense, but to say Katsidis has no place @ the supper table if you're only having fifteen place-settings, I think is something one must really consider pretty carefully.

 

My fave of his is actually Heavenly Creatures.

I used to fap to it like mad.


...except, you know, the matricide scene. :blood

Usually dropped to like half-mast for that.

 

...and Mitchell went on to do big things well after his ass was handed to him by MK. :good

 

Strewth?

Troy outpointed Vaca and Beasley (only just) and stopped Doo. Pretty much otherwise lost in his every attempt to step up in class...not that losses to Norris, Tito, Baek, or even Brown or Rosi are much to be ashamed of. I just don't see what in his W column is so much clearly better than Chavez, Mitchell, Amonsot, Escobedo and Earl?

 

As for Guy, yeah, he just lost to about everybody worth a damn he faced, no?

 

Fair enough I guess. I'm not sure on Briggsy.

Tank job against Green aside, I was always very much a fan of his (the Adamek wars are very underrated, some of the best stuff of the last decade) but I'd very much hesitate to place him above Katsidis.

His achievements run pretty thin, in all honesty. Sure, beating Doo in your debut is nice enough, as is capturing the Aussie title in only your eighth bout, and the Oriental & Pacific in your fifteenth. All his decent W's have asterisks on them, however. Glenn Kelley was coming directly off being thrashed by RJJ. Kariuki was a novice with less than half Briggs' experience when he challenged him for the OPBF title, and was coming off a stoppage loss just a few months before. Doo was ancient, that was his retirement bout and he still held debutant Briggs to a majority decision. Castro was ancient too, in the game over sixteen years at that point, fought on a few more but had long ceased to be relevant and had been embarrassed in his last real shot at the big time when his bloated carcass was dissected by Jirov.

Drews was unbeaten, and ranked, and Briggs dropped him a bunch of times. He already had a victory over Branco to become Euro champ and would later repeat the feat to become WBA champ. He also shut out a young Ovill McKenzie and bested Kurzawa and Brancalion.

That is Briggs' top moment - and even there, if you subtract the knockdowns and point deductions it would've been a loss for Briggs. (even just subtracting the latter puts it right in the neighborhood of a draw)

So you have the commendable but close victory over Drews, and more questionable ones in Kelley, Kariuki, Castro, and Doo - vs. Chavez, Mitchell, Amonsot, Escobedo and Earl.

I think Mitchell alone might cancel out Drews, or come pretty close, and the rest is no contest in Katsidis' favor.