Who could beat Roy Jones?

Hi Louden remember me?

Only an elite few I call the super elite with both the power and the will to knock him out (no one would outbox him)

Marvin Hagler yes (but not Monzon, too slow, lacks the sheer
firepower)

Bob Foster yes, but not Mike Spinks

I see Roy oufoxing and outboxing Mike, drill him with mind numbing body shots. Only late does Mike score but it's too late as Roy clinches to late round points win

11-1 in rounds

 

Mike has good two handed power but from long range, his attack is too measured while hagler had an attack that was animalistic in nature. for sheer raw savage attack AND the power to go along with it, no one is in Hags class. He left such a mess

and speaking of messes, Roy would be a bloody shattered mess by ten

Roy still sits on the supreme throne though, only a little lower than Hagler's

 

I can answer that

in 1987, hagler was shot and at the end of his career

you cant expect Ali to perform the same against Berbick and Holmes the way he did against Liston in 64-65 do you

as for the Duran fight, he was simply too cautious

had it been the Hagler of the Minter or Lee fight, forget it. NOBODY could stand up to Hags more than a few rounds. Emmanual Steward even said so in a 1985 interview before the start of the Hearns fight

I'm not even sure anyone could give Marv a fight at the time

notice how Leonard wisely voided a fight with him? He called him over to Baltimore in '82, then in front of a live audience, ducked out of a fight

Hearns ducked him twice that year also. people seem to forget

 

They would all have been dangerous fights. I think you'd have to add a peak Mike McCallum to the list as well, if he'd have fought a young JMW-MW version of Roy.

:good

 

I respect your opinion, but I think Roy's movement would have caused Marvin lots of trouble.

 

Was Marvin completely shot though, or just faded? I don't believe he'd have retired if he'd have gotten the decision over Ray.

You can't compare the Ali of the Berbick and Holmes fights, to the versions of Marvin that fought Mugabi and Ray. The fight against Berbick should never have happened, whereas Marvin still had some gas left in the tank.

If Marvin was too cautious against Duran, he could also have been cautious against Roy, who was much bigger, much faster, and who possessed unique skills and athleticism.

Yes, I'm well aware of what Ray did. But we can't forget that Ray was a peak WW who hadn't fought for three years, who was also past his best, and who'd never fought at MW before. But I think Ray's movement would always have caused Marvin issues.

Foxy thinks that Marvin would have taken Roy out quicker than he took out Tommy. When he comes back online, I'm going to ask him if he thinks that the 85 version of Hagler that crushed Tommy, would have taken out Ray in just a few rounds. Because in my opinion, apart from the hype and the stage being bigger, Roy would have presented a bigger threat to Marvin than what Ray did. Roy was bigger, much more powerful, and in my opinion, he had equal skills and speed to Ray. So I think Roy would have posed a huge threat to Marvin. I don't believe that anyone would have walked through Roy in a few rounds. It's laughable to me. I think Marvin would had to have respected Roy's great attributes.

:good

 

Hagler wasn't 'SHOT' against Leonard. He was past his prime but he could still rip off shots. A shot fighter has totally lost the ability to pull the trigger. Like Saad Muhammad after Qwai II, or Ali against Holmes/Berbick.

Leonard didn't exactly duck Hagler in '82. He had just had surgery for a detached retina. He retired for a couple of years. He only fought once in five years before finally facing Hagler.

I do agree with you that Hagler would beat Jones. He would get him late, probably after the 10th round. Jones isn't going to stand toe to toe like Hearns did. Hagler would have to employ a body attack and keep the pressure on all night to have a shot to catch up with Roy. I think prime for prime he could do it.

 

I respect your opinion, and I find this very interesting.

Again, I think Roy was a bigger threat at MW than what Ray was. Roy was bigger, stronger, heavier, and had much more power at the weight. And I honestly believe that their speed and skills were on the same level. That's my honest opinion. I'm not saying that Roy was a better overall fighter, but I'm just looking solely at both guys at MW.

So I have some questions for you, if you don't mind.

1. Do you agree that at MW, Roy would have posed either an equal, or a bigger threat than Ray?

2. Do you think if Marvin and Ray had've fought earlier, that Marvin would have beaten him?

3. Do you think Marvin would have knocked Ray out?


:good

 

I can also answer that. Not meaning to brag but I am probably the only one from this forum in attendance at one of Hag's sparring session in Mar 87. I even posted a flimsy photo of the visit

the Weaver triplets whizzed past Hagler with ease, and scored flurries w/o any return

regarding the Duran fight, I dont believe he thought of Duran as a threat at this stage. anyone like Sibson or Hearns were def threats as would Roy becuz as you said, he could cause Marvin trouble. Roy is such a master and throws a left and a right so effortlessly and so quickly with footwork and athleticsm seldom seen in the sport

However, Roy's chin has been reached and has been down (Del Valle) another southpaw like Tarver and Hagler and I can just imagine what kind of damage Hags would inlict. I dont think you've seen Hags the way i've seen him, especially when he psyches himself up for a fight the way he did with Hearns or Hamsho

before the Hearns fight, many thought Tommy would polish off Marv brutally in an early finish or at a minimum, outbox him for a UD

 

I respect your opinion, as well.

#1: yes

#2: If the fight had happened in '82, I think Hagler would have won a close decision. If it had happened in '84 after the Leonard/Howard fight, I think Hagler would have won by a wide decision

#3: no

 

Wow! That must have been fascinating for you. I was only 7 years old in 1987. How did you end up watching the sparring sessions?

I give Marvin all the credit in the world for beating Tommy, but I was surprised that Tommy went at him the way he did.

There's no doubt Marvin could have done serious damage to Roy had he found his chin, but I have to wonder if Marvin may have been frustrated by his movement.

:good

 

Again, I respect your opinion, and boxing is truly fascinating with all of the different stylistic match ups.

One more question if you don't mind.

If you don't think that Marvin would have stopped Ray, why do you think he'd have stopped Roy?

Any specific reason?

I think Roy was just as elusive as Ray, with his great reflexes.

:good

 

A prime Roy Jones was one of the best fighters to ever walk the earth.

I agree, Michael Spinks, Marvin Hagler, Ezzard Charles "could have" beaten Roy Jones. If you flip it, a prime Roy Jones "could have" beaten all of them, too.

That's the point. When you're naming the best fighters ever, a prime Roy Jones is right there with all of them.

Does he beat all of them? No. Just like they don't (and didn't) beat everyone, either.

But he is their peer.

 

I just think Ray was more durable. Prime Roy had a good chin it just wasn't tested much. Ray's was tested more.

 

I am amazed Roy is still fighting. Unfortunately he is wayyyy past his prime and only bad things will happen as he moves up in quality of opposition. Why is he still fighting tomato cans at this stage in his life?