Most Overrated and Underrated heavyweights of patterson/Listons era

Underrated
Liston - Legacy destroyed by the two Ali fights, which did not reflect reality.

Overrated
Floyd Patterson - Protected, Glass Jaw.

 

Of all those British heavies the only one who you could remotely say was overrated would be Henry Cooper.
I wasn't aware London, Erskine and Richardson in the grand scheme of things were ever that highly rated.

 

Eddie Machen, Hurricane Jackson, Johnny Holman and Bob Baker were also viable during this era.

 

I don't think Cooper's chin was quite that bad Suzie.
Ko'd by Folley, a good right hand puncher.
Ko'd by Ingo, a very good right hand puncher.
Ko'd by Floyd ,a fast sneaky underated puncher.
Kod by Bygraves, the result of a body shot when Cooper came into the ring much too heavy.

Ali floored lot of guys, but he never dropped Henry .
Urtain was a heavy puncher, he never dropped Cooper.

Erskine was a good boxer but lacked power and size, he was European level but only limited in that he lacked a big punch, he had quick feet
.London wasn't top drawer but he was good enough to beat the second tier heavyweights and occasionally spring a surprise on those a bit better.

 

All I know is Machen and Folley went 1-3-1 against Europeans. That is one win in five fights against European heavyweight champions between them. This does not mean they were bad. A lot of Americans lost against the Klitchkos and Lennox Lewis.

Cleveland Williams should be remembered simply as a good campaigner.

I agree Bob cleroux was underrated. I think Doug Jones was underrated.

 

They were not world beaters as such but hardly "Garbage". I would not call the world rated Americans who lost to them "garbage". It's not like they did not all beat rated fighters.

 

DeJohn and Richardson's first fight could have gone either way .


1959-12-01 : Mike DeJohn 201½ lbs beat **** Richardson 204½ lbs by PTS in round 10 of 10

• Location: Empire Pool, Wembley, London, United Kingdom

"After a pair of impressive knockouts in his last two starts at home, Mike DeJohn of Syracuse, NY, had to rally in the final for a 10 round decision against Welshman **** Richardson last night. DeJohn, jeered and booed as he stood in mid-ring, after the fight, bleeding from cuts over both eyes and on the forehead, was heavily favoured over Richardson. It was mostly a contest of clinches and there were no knockdowns, but Richardson opened up a cut over DeJohn's left eye in the 5th and jolted him with four hard rights that made the New Yorker hang on in the 8th. While the sellout Wembley Stadium crowd voiced their objection to the decision by British referee Bill Williams, the sole judge, Richardson was a picture of dejection." -Associated Press

• Unofficial AP scorecard - 5-4-1 DeJohn
• A companion 10 rounder on this card pitted Nino Valdes against Brian London.

Post fight comments

• "They told me Richardson was a soft touch. He wasn't. He's the best I've ever met, and he'd lick a lot of fighters back home." -Mike DeJohn

• "I won. I made the fight. The big crowd can't be wrong." -**** Richardson

TLondon v Valdes The AP poll gave London 3 rds, Valdes 3rds and one even ,when London retired with a cut eye. London did also beat Folley,Zora claimed he was robbed in that one.


"When the referee stopped the fight to examine the cuts, that gave Mildenberger time to recuperate." -Bill Swift, Folley's manager, claiming that Folley had hurt Mildenberger with a flurry of hard shots to the head just before the referee intervened.

• "I thought I won, but this isn't as bad as the decision I lost to Brian London in England. When you fight away from home you have to contend with this." -Zora Folley

 

You're obviously a Sonny Liston fanboy. I don't understand how you can back someone that cheated. Any other boxer in history would of lost against Ali on them two historic nights.

 

Folley's memoey is a bit selective, he fought Mildenberger 3 years before London.

I reccall watching the London/Folley fight on TV. It was also on Youtube recently, but seems to have been removed. London was a clear winner. Folley started fast & clearly won the first two rounds. The 3rd was more even & then London took over, I was surprised how easily he outboxed Folley.

London is generally disregarded on these forums. He was never a world beater & certainly not championship material. His performance against Ali was pathetic & he admits this in his book. He also suffered a bad run of defeats at the end of his career when he was way past his best & had no ambition left & admits he kept going strictly for the payday.

However, in his better days he did meet a lot of good fighters including some of the rougher types & contenders in their prime.Has some good wins on his resume & generally fought better class of contender than other British heavyweight Henry Cooper. After Ali he claims the best he met was Machen, who really busted him up whilst the best boxer was Erskine.

 

He also had Johannson on ***** street although it was Ingo's last fight.

 

Correct, but London was no chicken either & Folley had put in a reasonable performance against Ali the same year.

Agree with you that Folley was robbed in the Mildenberger fight. An even bigger robbery though was when Mildenberger was given the decision over journeyman Dave Bailey who floored him several times.