Floyd Patterson avoiding Cleveland Williams

Who did Chuvalo beat? A fluke over Quarry and an ancient Williams.

 

I'm not saying Chuvalo was a world beater either. Just another good campaigner just like Williams was.

However, Chuvalo was rated for more years. Longevity goes a long way when rating fighters. Don't forget, he was fighting almost as long as Williams.

George Chuvalo resume stands up comparably with Williams. In 1959 both Williams and Chuvalo had more improving to do but they both fought Frankie Daniels. Williams could not budge Daniels in twenty rounds yet George wiped the floor with Frankie decking him twice before stopping him on a cut.

And why was Quarry a fluke win? Some could say it tops Williams beating Terrell and drawing with Machen. beating Doug Jones was no fluke, George gave Patterson and bonavena life and death too.

 

Chuvalo did drop fights by decision but both he and WIlliams put up a good fight when they did meet. I'm not so sure Williams could have done any better even in 1963.

 

IT is not just a matter of who was better .. Williamns with his high size, reach, speed and power was a tougher match up for the small Patterson than Chuvalo or Bonavena ..

 

Someone show me how a five-fighter tournament bracket works and I'll try to absorb the rest.

 

Who did Williams ever beat?? When you best win is over a green Ernie Terrell in his first big fight away from home you have nothing to brag about. Terrell was still a couple of years away from being the guy who MIGHT have been the second best fighter in the division very briefly. Its not like Williams beat this all time great killer.

 

This is what I've been saying for years. In a long career Williams was a viable contender for a very short time. Decent for a time but no world beater. As good as Williams looked (and I accept he was exciting looking) too much is built around what he could have been rather than what he actually was. People argue that he was a champion in the making if he had not been avoided or if had not been shot at by a police man. But this avoids and excuses quite a lot of oppertunties that resulted in Williams being quite badly exposed a number of times. Truth is It really is hard to think of another fighter so highly thought of without an actual signature win.

 

Tommy Huricane Jackson brought just as much to the table as Williams. Just as tall, same reach, a bit lighter but certainly younger and with better signature wins than Big Cat Williams ever recorded.

I think we need more of a case to back up Williams chances against a proven World beater like Patterson. Having a punchers chance only cuts it if the puncher actually knocked out somebody relevant at elite level surely?

 

Cleveland definitely had the speed and power to put Patterson away. As for the 'who did he beat' crew, most contenders avoided him like the plague in his prime.

 

Prime Chuvalo lost to Corletti! Terrell whom Williams beat,Mathis.


Chuvalo was rated in 5 years Williams in 4 .In November 64 Williams last year, he was shot otherwise he would have been rated in 65, so bang goes that argument.


Williams failed to stop Daniels whereas Chuvalo did? Williams stopped Terrell and held him to a split decision Chuvalo lost to him.Bang goes that argument too!

 

You have to get them in the ring before you can knock them out.:think

 

If you leave out the fact that he was a weak puncher I'd say they were identical .. :roll:

 

Williams actually lost to Chuvalo how about that? Both Williams and Chuvalo were not world beaters. Good campaigners. That's all.

perhaps. But before the shooting Williams could not knockout the seven times knocked out Tommy Feilds. Perhaps Williams prime had begun to dry up all on its own?

According to Chuvalo autobiography Terrell's manager Glickman was a front for Tony Acardo head of the Chicago outfit. and Chuvalo insists both the Refaree Sammy Lufftspring and his own manager personally told him they had been threatened with their lives if the decision went chuvalos way. Now I don't know if that's true but I do know nobody sued Chuvalo for saying that.

"The scoring stank. All he did was beat the hell out of my right glove for 15 rounds"

"For 15 rounds I plowed forward and he retreated. He fell to a routine of jabbing and trying to tie me up every time I made a move inside. In round 2 I had a trickle of blood coming from my nose but so what! In the 8th he thumbed me and landed one decent right hand on my chin but that was pretty much his entire offensive.

From round 11 on Terrell was strictly in survival mode. In the 13th I pounded him on the ropes opening two nice cuts over his left eye. In both the 14th and 15th I trapped him on the ropes and rocked him with big shots to the head.

It wasn't enough for the judges. What I'll never forget is all the newspaper guys in my corner before the decision was announced.to me that was a good sign. Then there was a mass exodus toward Terrell who had been standing alone. Those people knew I won. To get robbed like that in my own hometown still hurts 50years later."
-"George Chuvalo A Fighters life"