Floyd Patterson avoiding Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jun 14, 2015.


  1. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Interesting

    Terrell beat 27-4 Amos Johnson the fight directly after losing to Williams. Johnson had just knocked out a good fighter in Thad spencer
     
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    How do you explain terrell winning the world heavyweight title at 199lb vs eddie Machen? The same weight as when he fought williams?
     
  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Patterson did not "actively chase a third fight with Liston," here is a direct quote.
    " Even I wouldn't pay to see that".
    Patterson had a rematch clause with Johannson and so was assured of a chance of revenge, but he would have chased that fight anyway because Ingo had the title and therefore the big $$$.
     
  4. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    After following this informative and interesting debate I have to side with the not avoiding group-Williams had not done near enough to merit a shot-especially without hindsight. If he had got a shot however he would be as worthy as some and would have fared better than several. However I am a bit biased feeling that he is now greatly overrated mainly due to a Razor Ruddock type effect, the Liston fights suited him to make him look good but his overall game while good was not exceptional.
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    And I think Williams would do a little better against light heavyweight Rocky Jones 14-9-1 who outpointed Lastarza 11 months before Roland got his title shot ,and 2 months later dropped him in a rematch.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Williams had just been named to fight Terrell in the WBA tournament meanwhile he had signed to fight Amos Lincoln. Then on November 29th 1964 Williams was pulled over by a traffic cop resisting arrest he was shot in the stomach at point blank range.
    Williams had blood transfusions for 3 hours after he was shot,the 357 magnum bullet had entered his left side and ploughed through his colon and the small bowel,damaging nerves that control leg movement and fractured part of the hip joint.

    The initial operation lasted 5 hours, half an hour later another operation was necessary because Williams was bleeding internally.Williams hovered between life and death for days he had tubes in his nose,a vein for intravenous feeding,the right kidney,and the bladder.

    His weight went from 215 down to155lbs. Williams was advised that his only chance of boxing again necessitated the removal of his damaged kidney. So after another operation, kidney removed ,with the bullet lodged up near his right hip bone, Williams began his recuperation.

    Doctors stated his having one kidney would mean that, under pressure his body would not supply enough adrenalin to cope with a crisis.



    Williams built his body back up.Fourteen months after the shooting Willaims fought Ben Black 2-1-1 and was floored in the first round but got up to ko Black and his comeback was a reality.

    During Williams training for the Ali fight he sparred with Ben Black and Tod Herring, reporters noted that Williams had lost his speed and agility.

    This is the guy you say showed no evidence of deterioration after his shooting ?
     
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  7. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Matt,

    The question is did Floyd Patterson avoid a fight with Cleveland Williams in 1964? Look at the my original post in this thread. It clearly outlines in detail how Floyd avoided him in 1964.
     
  8. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  9. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  10. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  11. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  12. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Klompton

    https://news.google.com/newspapers?n...,6648152&hl=en

    Interesting Quote here by The Victorian Advocate Oct 30 1957

    "Roy Harris returned to the wars against Willie Besmanoff in Houston, but a stablemate of the cut n shoot clouter has come on to such an extent that boxing men now rate him far ahead of the backwoods school teacher who beat willie pastrano. His name is Cleveland Williams, he is considered the most dangerous heavyweight in the business. If Harris requires any protection, the dope is that Williams would be the policeman with considerable authority. The mere suggestion that they qualify by first beating Williams will keep any toughies away from Harris. Williams is a 25 year old negro with reflexes as quick as a sneeze, the size and strength of a longshoreman, graceful movements of a panther, and a hatred of every chin in the male pulgilism system except his own."




    Interesting comments here. It debunks your statement about Williams not being praised by the press in the late 50s, it adds to my theory about Harris being protected, and it shows that even before 1958 there were people out there who thought Williams was the better fighter with far more potential.
     
  13. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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  15. sweetsci

    sweetsci Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Here's Ring's ratings going into the Patterson-London fight:

    The Ring - June 1959
    (as of mid April 1959)

    Champion:
    Floyd Patterson
    1. Ingemar Johansson
    2. Zora Folley
    3. Henry Cooper
    4. Sonny Liston
    5. Eddie Machen
    6. Nino Valdes
    7. Wille Pastrano
    8. Brian London
    9. Charlie Powell
    10. Joe Erskine

    As you can see, London was ranked #8 by Ring going into the Patterson match. But like Klompton says, Ring's ratings were in no way official. I have no reason to believe that the NBA didn't rank London at #2, but considering London was 2-2 (all against name fighters) going into the Patterson fight, I find a #2 rating to be questionable. Especially considering London was coming off a loss to Henry Cooper a few months before fighting Patterson.

    In doing a bit of ratings research over the past couple of years, it's become apparent that Ring's ratings are far from perfect. That's not to say that they're no good and shouldn't be used; merely that Nat Fleischer and his staff were human and had biases.