Lennox Lewis vs Jack Dempsey

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jun 10, 2015.


  1. Foxy 01

    Foxy 01 Boxing Junkie banned

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    Go away and continue to live your life through osmosis desperately
    " wishing " you had been involved in the certain knowledge that you were actually too young to have to take the risk.

    I'll tell you the difference between you and real fighting men like my old man and his friends, and family. Because they were called up in 39 and spent the whole 6 years fighting they DIDN'T talk about it.

    If you, a non com, had an ounce of the respect you purport to have, you'd keep your mouth firmly shut on the subject. I have had the privilege to know and socialise with dozens of these guys, and I have seen them march in rememberance parades wearing their medals, only to put them back in a draw until the following year. NOT ONE of them ever had so much to say on the subject as you have, other than to say " it was hell son, all the sh it you can imagine, and then some "
     
  2. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The KEY to the ALLIED victory in World War II was American production of supplies. We provided more aircraft, ships, tanks, jeeps, trucks, trains, and food than any other nation.

    Now I will NEVER downplay the sacrifice and work of the UK nor Russia, BUT... in 1940 Great Britain was BANKRUPT and was preparing to negotiate a peace with Hitler. Churchill wrote a FAMOUS letter to President Roosevelt stating the DIRE state on the English, BEGGING for support.

    The Soviet Union was also in dire straits... trading space and people in a BRILLIANT strategic retreat to the Urals. BUT they ALSO benefited greatly from US material support.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If, when you say, "provided", you mean "sold", then yes, that's true.
     
  4. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But then add to what we helped our allies with in terms of supplies with the men we sent to battle half way around the globe. To in any way downplay the US as a major reason WW2 was won is foolhardy at best.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Certainly, the US played a role.

    And they sold us that stuff on lease and although we only finished paying them in 2006 (!) they actually only asked about a quarter of what it was worth, I believe.

    Still, given that Britain's resistance was literally the only reason that Germany didn't role over Europe in a year and a half like Pacquiao rolling over Hatton, a cynic might suggest that actual aid equal to what US has given Iraq might not have been too much to ask.

    But, whatever, US certainly played an absolutely crucial role, and although the disaster that was the eastern front was always going define Hitler's time in charge, US involvement hastened the end for that regime, inarguably.
     
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    "Played a role" is a massive diminishing of the U.S. Overall impact on who won WW2. Without the U.S. Neither England or Russia would have had the firepower to defeat Germany.
     
  7. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You punk, MAKE me go away...What the hell do you know about
    my service background in WW2 ? Zilch...You utter contempt for the American armed forces in WW2, and belittle the sacrifices of so many dead Americans who though 3000 miles away DID join the fight against the terror that was Hitler, who you seem to adore or tolerate more or less. You defend a Stalin that signed a
    "peace" pact with Her Hitler,but broken by the Nazi's when
    the despot Hitler invaded Russia. These two animals Stalin and Hitler deserved each other...They were responsible for the cruel deaths of untold millions of human beings in the Gulag and concentration camps ,and totally affected the lives of every
    innocent human beings on earth including me and my friends who died fighting the two beasts that was Stalin and Hitler...Try as you may to defend them you cad, you CANNOT change the true history of that past...You started this by calling me a "jokester", though you don't even know me...It is YOU sir who is the fool to try to change history of WW2. The valiant dead who lost their lives fighting the evil that was Hitler and Stalin deserve no less than the truth...
     
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Russia inarguably - beyond all hope of argument - had the firepower to defeat Germany. The problem is they didn't have the boots, for example, or the jeeps. Where would that have left them? We don't know. Probably up **** street. But I know the Germans were lasting on that line and I know that with Hitler in charge the charge to Moscow wouldn't have come in time. So I know there's a stalemate, probably, on the eastern front. And I know how that stalemate ends. The question really becomes how hard could Russia push? In real world they pushed hard enough to rout the Germans. Lacking boots and jeeps and other ****, how would they have done? Could they have made things difficult enough to take Berlin?

    We'll never know now, but your position - it's impossible - isn't reasonable IMO.
     
  9. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    There is no doubt in my mind that if Hitler not have invaded Belgium, Poland, the Czeck Republic etc, and tried to conquer England and France etc, they could have defeated Russia alone...Hitler became drunk with power...
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    If Hitler hadn't invaded those countries, he would pretty soon have been bankrupt.

    You might also want to consider that the French and Czech armaments industries, accounted for approximately 40% of Germany's military production.
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Which of your friends was fighting Stalin, Burt?
     
  12. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Once again. England was near bankruptcy in 1940. Without the incredible level of US support for supplies there is a much higher possibility that England would have been in under German control in 1941. England under German control changes everything. Germany then could have focused greater attn on the eastern front AND without US support of Russia once again Germany at the very least would have had much more of a chance of reaching Moscow and conquering most all of Europe. So to downplay in any way the massive effort the U.S.made to help both England and Russia to win WW2 is just plain wrong. Then add to this all the brave young men who left there homes in the U.S. To travel half way around the world to die fighting this war.
     
  13. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    They also killed their own soldiers if they retreated. Stalin killed 40, 000,000 of his own people. Patton was right. The Allies should of turned and destroyed the Russian Army too.
     
  14. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    just face the facks dat you are rong and no it. History books write it. The world knows it. Just because yr country? is not the world power the last 70 yrs is nothing to be ashamed of.
     
  15. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Britain. NOT England.

    Loans totalling a billion were available from Canada, definitely. Probably a lot more.

    No.

    Not in 1941. What is this based upon? US was UK's nearest ally. It's very natural that there should be this relationship between us. But it's not like no other avenues existed.

    All Germany had to do to reach Moscow was take the decision to go there. That is not how the war panned out because it was not Hitler's wish. He was much more interested in the Ukrainian bread-basket. He had no steel.